July 4th ride / breakdown

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Jerry Doe

Jerry Doe

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I have done about 120 miles on my 750 last week and was running so well. Its my bike of choice for the local Colorado Mountains as it handles so well. I ride it up to 7000 revs regularly and it flies with the tuned motor.

Yesterday (July4th) I decided to take the 750 on the Norton Colorado Owners club ride. I rode from my house to Golden, Colorado, where we all met (about 40 miles away, 80 MPH on freeway). Great to see everyone. We took back roads to Idaho Springs and the bike running really well. Then way up in the Mountains between Colorado Springs and Evergreen, the motor died. I was in the middle of nowhere (about 11:30 AM). I cruised to a safe spot on the side of the road in the mountain twisties. First observation was that I had no phone signal and I was in the middle of nowhere. The other riders carried on as they did not notice.

Within half an hour, nice folks from Oklahoma stopped and he happened to have a meter. I checked and my Lithium battery was completely flat. I knew I had to call AAA at this point. (For all those outside the US, AAA is an emergency towing company). The people who stopped had a weak phone signal, but I was able to get through to AAA. I was able to get long/lat using the nice peoples phone. AAA said they would be there at 2:30PM, I figured I could wait a few hours. They did not show up at 2:30PM. I waited until 4PM and figured they weren't going to show up. I had not ridden on this road before, so was not sure what was down the mountain or nearby. So 2 thunderstorms later I decided to try and coast down to see about getting a signal. I was on Squaw Pass coming down from Squaw mountain when this happened.

My buddy at the Norton Owners Club came back to find me I and I told him that I had already called AAA and all is well, so they were cool and was really good to see everyone.

I was getting ready to try and coast down the mountain and 2 lovely ladies stopped to see if I was ok and they said they would follow me with hazards on. So off I go, I was cranking, sometimes doing 45 MPH around hairpin corners scraping pegs. I didn't want to lose momentum. Really strange riding like that without a motor. There were a few places where I had to push it a bit. I coasted down just over 8 miles to the SR74. I had recently put an analog speedometer back on (removed electronic). Then my phone was dead, but the MRS just got me an iWatch for my birthday, so was able to call using that. I called AAA and they then said they would be arriving to my new location at about 6PM. Luckily there was a music festival at the park where I coasted to so that was ok. Finally AAA showed up with a flatbed and we took the bike home (approx 70 miles). The tow truck driver told me the first driver at 2:30 tried to call me , but due to no phone signal was assigned on another call.

Now back at home and checked things out. Its charging. Seems like the battery failed. I wont be using lithium batteries anymore. Never heard of this happening.

Here are some pics:

This is where I broke down:
squaw.jpg


Here are some pics of the club and bikes on the ride:

IMG_1483.JPEG


IMG_1487.JPEG


IMG_1484.JPEG


IMG_1485.JPEG


Then the breakdown period:
IMG_1488.JPEG
IMG_1496.JPEG
 
Looks like good old British weather there Jerry. Glad you got sorted in the end, I guess we all have similar experiences.
 
Hi Jerry.
I can relate. Five years ago I coasted the Commando for several miles down into the BC town of Osoyoos. My friends were most impressed that I was able to just squeak it into the DQ parking lot, then immediately went inside to order a banana split.
It was about 95f out, so the final resting place could not have worked out any better!
Dead Lithium on board for that one too.
 
trident sam said:
Looks like good old British weather there Jerry. Glad you got sorted in the end, I guess we all have similar experiences.
Click to expand...
I will never forget the English weather :)
Up in the mountains here storms come quite frequently. In the Summer It really pisses down and then is sunny and hot again in 30 mins.
 
worntorn said:
Hi Jerry.
I can relate. Five years ago I coasted the Commando for several miles down into the BC town of Osoyoos. My friends were most impressed that I was able to just squeak it into the DQ parking lot, then immediately went inside to order a banana split.
It was about 95f out, so the final resting place could not have worked out any better!
Dead Lithium on board for that one too.
Click to expand...
I am assuming you are done with Lithium then too? Never again for me. I am changing the batteries in the 850 as well (I have 2 lithium's in it)..
What's funny is I was going on that same ride with them 2 years ago and the 750 broke down while filling up prior to the ride. That time it was the Trispark. It has Pazon in now.
 
Jerry Doe said:
I have done about 120 miles on my 750 last week and was running so well. Its my bike of choice for the local Colorado Mountains as it handles so well. I ride it up to 7000 revs regularly and it flies with the tuned motor.

Yesterday (July4th) I decided to take the 750 on the Norton Colorado Owners club ride. I rode from my house to Golden, Colorado, where we all met (about 40 miles away, 80 MPH on freeway). Great to see everyone. We took back roads to Idaho Springs and the bike running really well. Then way up in the Mountains between Colorado Springs and Evergreen, the motor died. I was in the middle of nowhere (about 11:30 AM). I cruised to a safe spot on the side of the road in the mountain twisties. First observation was that I had no phone signal and I was in the middle of nowhere. The other riders carried on as they did not notice.

Within half an hour, nice folks from Oklahoma stopped and he happened to have a meter. I checked and my Lithium battery was completely flat. I knew I had to call AAA at this point. (For all those outside the US, AAA is an emergency towing company). The people who stopped had a weak phone signal, but I was able to get through to AAA. I was able to get long/lat using the nice peoples phone. AAA said they would be there at 2:30PM, I figured I could wait a few hours. They did not show up at 2:30PM. I waited until 4PM and figured they weren't going to show up. I had not ridden on this road before, so was not sure what was down the mountain or nearby. So 2 thunderstorms later I decided to try and coast down to see about getting a signal. I was on Squaw Pass coming down from Squaw mountain when this happened.

My buddy at the Norton Owners Club came back to find me I and I told him that I had already called AAA and all is well, so they were cool and was really good to see everyone.

I was getting ready to try and coast down the mountain and 2 lovely ladies stopped to see if I was ok and they said they would follow me with hazards on. So off I go, I was cranking, sometimes doing 45 MPH around hairpin corners scraping pegs. I didn't want to lose momentum. Really strange riding like that without a motor. There were a few places where I had to push it a bit. I coasted down just over 8 miles to the SR74. I had recently put an analog speedometer back on (removed electronic). Then my phone was dead, but the MRS just got me an iWatch for my birthday, so was able to call using that. I called AAA and they then said they would be arriving to my new location at about 6PM. Luckily there was a music festival at the park where I coasted to so that was ok. Finally AAA showed up with a flatbed and we took the bike home (approx 70 miles). The tow truck driver told me the first driver at 2:30 tried to call me , but due to no phone signal was assigned on another call.

Now back at home and checked things out. Its charging. Seems like the battery failed. I wont be using lithium batteries anymore. Never heard of this happening.

Here are some pics:

This is where I broke down:
View attachment 80882

Here are some pics of the club and bikes on the ride:

View attachment 80889

View attachment 80890

View attachment 80891

View attachment 80892

Then the breakdown period:
View attachment 80893View attachment 80894
Click to expand...
Happens a lot. AGM is my powersports choice.
advrider.com

Motorcycle Batteries .. AGM, GEL, Wet, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)

Motorcycle Batteries .. AGM, GEL, Wet, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Let's examine the most popular battery types, how to charge, advantages,...
advrider.com advrider.com
 
That's a real bummer, Jerry. Now I'm starting to worry about the Shorais in two of my bikes, particularly the 961. They are light weight enough that maybe I could fit two, charging the backup one through an isolator circuit, and wire them so I can switch between them easily:D. Just joking, but it does make me think seriously about going back to AGM.

About your bike, my experience is that normally a Commando will keep running on the alternator output, even without a battery, as long as the lights are off and there is no other significant current drain. Unless the battery has short circuited. Is that what happened with yours?

Ken
 
Jerry Doe said:
I am assuming you are done with Lithium then too? Never again for me. I am changing the batteries in the 850 as well (I have 2 lithium's in it)..
What's funny is I was going on that same ride with them 2 years ago and the 750 broke down while filling up prior to the ride. That time it was the Trispark. It has Pazon in now.
Click to expand...
Yes, all done. The Commando Lithium failure was my lucky one. I replaced the battery with a big new lead acid and carried on.
I also had a Lithium battery in my Vincent for awhile. When that one died it got very hot and almost caused a fire. It also destroyed $800 worth of Alton & Podtonics. I was near Sacramento, Ca at the time, headed for Vancouver, BC, many miles away.

Glen
 
Hi Ken,

Good idea actually.

I have only ever tested it this time. Mine definitely won’t run without a battery.

I need to research AGM. I am going to have to redo the battery area for both bikes now. I will go with wet cell in the 71.

I have been worried about the battery due to the fact I left them in the bikes all winter in sub zero temps in my garage.

Hope all is well.
 
I had a Shorai go into a heat and smoke generating self destruction reaction. To be fair I think it was triggered by a failed regulator/rectifier unit. I was able to get home because the bike had a mag. Don't trust those newfangled battery dependent coil ignitions. LOL
 
Ouch!! That kind of scenario plays out in my mind frequently. Long days stuck in the middle of nowhere are on my not so much fun list. You did good though making it to the music.

I worked on my Betor forks on the 4th, and went for a 9 mile test ride.

I'm still waiting for my Antigravity LifePo4 battery to take a crap. I've got 1100 miles on it. No problems so far.

If you were using a stock older charging system, it is possible that you were feeding it too much voltage via the regulator. They don't like a lot of juice. They won't last if getting more than 14.4V via the charging system. That is paraphrasing from the docs that came with my Antigravity battery. If that info is wrong, tell Antigravity, cuz telling me is like talking to a brick wall.

The blue TriSpark regulator rectifier I'm using seems to get along with my Antigravity 4 cell LifePo4 battery, because the TriSpark part tops out at 14.4V. No fires under the seat, and it runs fine with all the lights on in hot weather. 370 miles last round trip out. . My electrical system is very simple though, so that may be why I haven't had any trouble with it so far.

I did melt a corner of a LifePo4 battery, and burn up a PODtronics reg/rect with a short previously. Really stunk up my garage. Didn't stop me from straightening out my electrical components and installing another LifePo4 battery. Obviously something is very wrong with me.

When my bike starts on fire, I'll probably complain about the LifePo4 battery being the worst thing I've ever done.

That Red Honda 400 is very clean. Wow!!
 
I really need to dig into this and see what’s going on. First I am going to see if the battery will charge. If it does I will start the bike up and see if it’s charging or not. I have 2 Shorai in my MK3, so might have to get one from there.

I have a 3 phase alternator and modern rectifier,

it’s going to be a while, but will update this with the findings

cheers
 
Jerry Doe said:
Hi Ken,

Good idea actually.

I have only ever tested it this time. Mine definitely won’t run without a battery.

I need to research AGM. I am going to have to redo the battery area for both bikes now. I will go with wet cell in the 71.

I have been worried about the battery due to the fact I left them in the bikes all winter in sub zero temps in my garage.

Hope all is well.
Click to expand...

US made, live long dependable lives in my Snowmobiles, ATV's & motorcycles.

This seller has given great service. I run the ETX9 in my '74 Cdo.
 
Jerry Doe said:
I really need to dig into this and see what’s going on. First I am going to see if the battery will charge. If it does I will start the bike up and see if it’s charging or not. I have 2 Shorai in my MK3, so might have to get one from there.

I have a 3 phase alternator and modern rectifier,

it’s going to be a while, but will update this with the findings

cheers
Click to expand...
What reg/rect do you have Jerry? Did you use a maintenance charger? What kind?

I had my four year old Podtronics fail, and had been using it with a Shorai with a litium Battery Tender. I went to a TS MOSFET unit, and it works fine with my Motobatt AGM that I got as a safety net for the NZ rally that was happening the week after installing the MOSFET and I didnt know if the battery would hold a charge. 4 mos later is is still fully charged on the workbench.
 
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