It's a long way to 920 type(rary)

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I just call Elring, I must send them a head gasket as model, and they will make me a proposal.
I must order at least 3 gasket and know nothing about the price; but please look at the website from Elring and you will understand that cooper gaskets are obsolete to day
Yves
 
Yes - try the Elring gasket and tell us how it works.

Don't know why your's blew. But I don't think its the thinness of the copper gasket. I know there are many riders with .5mm/.020" Head gaskets and Ihaven't heard of any problems from anyone when following the instructions. Oil leaks depend on if/how you use the pliobond sealer and .005" copper wire. You have to apply the pliobond to each surface - the head, the cylinders and both sides of the gasket so it bonds to each metal surface - otherwise oil can worm through. I have used a .08mm/.003" thin head gasket on my 750 with 9+ CR for years with no leaks at all (always using pliobond & the .005" copper wire).

Note the waisted/fluted head studs (photo around 2009).

It's a long way to 920 type(rary)
 
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lcrken said:
As Yves said, it is an interesting site, and worth a look.

http://www.elring.com/en/products/cylinder-head-gaskets/

A similar company in the US is Cometic, who will also do custom gaskets. They have made custom Norton head gaskets for at least a couple of customers in the past. Although Elring looks like it might be a bit more into the higher tech stuff.

http://www.cometic.com/

Ken
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info's, I will look closer at there cometic website tomorow
Yves
 
jseng1 said:
Yes - try the Elring gasket and tell us how it works.

Don't know why your's blew. But I don't think its the thinness of the copper gasket. I know there are many riders with .5mm/.020" Head gaskets and Ihaven't heard of any problems from anyone when following the instructions. Oil leaks depend on if/how you use the pliobond sealer and .005" copper wire. You have to apply the pliobond to each surface - the head, the cylinders and both sides of the gasket so it bonds to each metal surface - otherwise oil can worm through. I have used a .08mm/.003" thin head gasket on my 750 with 9+ CR for years with no leaks at all (always using pliobond & the .005" copper wire).

Note the waisted/fluted head studs (photo around 2009).

It's a long way to 920 type(rary)
Click to expand...
Jim, I follow step by step your instructions, believe me, but there is a big difference at the space between the combustion chamber and the bolt on a 750 and a 920,
I think more for a bad quality of the cooper from the lazer cut workshop here in Belgium, now to keep the bike riding I put a 0.8mm to replace the 0.6mm and I will keep you posted about Elring ASAP
Thanks
Yves
 
Yves, if Elring gaskets work out well for you, there are plenty of the Norton following that have high compression motors and would be interested in gaskets that prove to work very well.
It might be if they make a lot more than 3 that you could sell them on , so it maybe cheaper for you to get them to make 50 or more ?
Just a thought.
I would be willing to give them a try in my race motor which is currently apart .
Count me in for 10 if they work for you.
Regards Mike
 
yves norton seeley said:
Jim, I follow step by step your instructions, believe me, but there is a big difference at the space between the combustion chamber and the bolt on a 750 and a 920,
I think more for a bad quality of the cooper from the lazer cut workshop here in Belgium, now to keep the bike riding I put a 0.8mm to replace the 0.6mm and I will keep you posted about Elring ASAP
Thanks
Yves
Click to expand...

Hello Yves,
thank you for the call some days ago. If you contact Elring and even have an appointment with them I offer to join you. My engine currently has a bore of 79mm. I'm thinking of a solution that suits all possible bores.
Elring have 2 subsidiaries very near to my place (Idstein and Runkel). It is of course important to know where to go with these customized gaskets (maybe even Stuttgart?). Maybe it is valuable that a native German- speaker supports you with this project in Germany. If you plan to have me as a support please try to get an appointment outside the weekend between the 15th and the 17th. June.
Best Regards
Klaus
 
In my head, I can’t get away from either running no gasket at all (surely a possibility if you’re talking about the perfectly machined surfaces of a brand new Maney barrel and a Fullauto head)
If it’s a compression ratio or clearance issue, use a base gasket/compression plate to give you the clearance required. Much less pressure involved at the base of the barrel, so less prone to blowing out.

Or if it’s absolutely needed just something crushable like micro thin copper wire (as Jim uses) or kevlar thread like the indycar engine builders use.


I also really like Jim Comstock’s idea of o-rings - with machined grooves, they should squash flat, and give no way to blow out.

It's a long way to 920 type(rary)
 
Klaus Monning said:
Hello Yves,
thank you for the call some days ago. If you contact Elring and even have an appointment with them I offer to join you. My engine currently has a bore of 79mm. I'm thinking of a solution that suits all possible bores.
Elring have 2 subsidiaries very near to my place (Idstein and Runkel). It is of course important to know where to go with these customized gaskets (maybe even Stuttgart?). Maybe it is valuable that a native German- speaker supports you with this project in Germany. If you plan to have me as a support please try to get an appointment outside the weekend between the 15th and the 17th. June.
Best Regards
Klaus
Click to expand...
Hi Klaus, thanks for the proposal but Elring don't wish to receive visitors, so I ship a gasket by UPS to day
Yves
 
Brooking 850 said:
Yves, if Elring gaskets work out well for you, there are plenty of the Norton following that have high compression motors and would be interested in gaskets that prove to work very well.
It might be if they make a lot more than 3 that you could sell them on , so it maybe cheaper for you to get them to make 50 or more ?
Just a thought.
I would be willing to give them a try in my race motor which is currently apart .
Count me in for 10 if they work for you.
Regards Mike
Click to expand...
Mike, I receive a lot of calls about blowed cooper head gaskets on high compression engines, to me cooper gaskets are as obsolete as having a smart phone with a circular dial disc on it.
Very strange that we can find the most up to date components for our engines, but no hi-tech gaskets...
I keep you posted about Elring when I receive a antsword from them, the sampel gasket is ship to Elring to day
Yves
 
gtiller said:
In my head, I can’t get away from either running no gasket at all (surely a possibility if you’re talking about the perfectly machined surfaces of a brand new Maney barrel and a Fullauto head)
If it’s a compression ratio or clearance issue, use a base gasket/compression plate to give you the clearance required. Much less pressure involved at the base of the barrel, so less prone to blowing out.

Or if it’s absolutely needed just something crushable like micro thin copper wire (as Jim uses) or kevlar thread like the indycar engine builders use.


I also really like Jim Comstock’s idea of o-rings - with machined grooves, they should squash flat, and give no way to blow out.

View attachment 5124
Click to expand...
Hi Glitter, of course I like Jim Comstock's idee, like all is idees, but this can be a expensive machine shop work to do, first I prefer to find a 21 century head gasket that you can use W/O going to the machine shop, a straight fit for all hi-Compression Codo engines;
I have different base gasket thikness at my workshop, no gasket at all can be a solution but let me try to find the wonder gasket first
Yves
 
Hi Yves, if you could sort out that with Elring , I am with Klaus and Mike for a couple of 920/850 gaskets , so you will become the distributor for improved Norton gasket .............! cross fingers .
I had met François at a french track days a week ago (but no Bruno!) he was there with his beautiful Manx and wonderfull 750 Prodie Racer .....! a real pleasure to talk with him , a nice guy ( allready met at Spa last year ).
 
marinatlas said:
Hi Yves, if you could sort out that with Elring , I am with Klaus and Mike for a couple of 920/850 gaskets , so you will become the distributor for improved Norton gasket .............! cross fingers .
I had met François at a french track days a week ago (but no Bruno!) he was there with his beautiful Manx and wonderfull 750 Prodie Racer .....! a real pleasure to talk with him , a nice guy ( allready met at Spa last year ).
Click to expand...

Unfortunately my 1969 Daytona wasn't ready...next time, I hope!!
 
Check to see what rubber they use on those gaskets. Norton cyl heads get hotter than most and will destroy most elastic materials. What works on watercooled motors may not work on overheating air cooled motors. You won't know until you try it.

Normal Norton head temp at cruzing approx 300 deg F

can get to appox 400 deg F at prolonged idle in hot weather

extreme conditions can show even higher temps
 
Fast Eddie said:
Put me down for a handful of gaskets too Yves !!
Click to expand...
Slow done Friends, we don't know so far if Elring can find a solution! the only thing I know so far is that they can not go thiner as 0.8mm.
Second thing: I am ready to be the Guinea Pig to test the gasket but I realy don't wish to start a bussines, I don't want to make a cent profit on peopel that help me for so many time with good advice on access.
I hope it will work, I trust the German technologie, when I was a sidecar racer I was using pistons from Mahle and crankshaft from Hoeckle and this parts give me full satisfaction.
To day I strobe my engine, going from 28 to 26 degrees advance, I was ready to do a road test till I put my "magic" helmet on my head, you should ask why "magic"? Well becouse every time I put my helmet on my head it start raining!
Yves
 
marinatlas said:
Hi Yves, if you could sort out that with Elring , I am with Klaus and Mike for a couple of 920/850 gaskets , so you will become the distributor for improved Norton gasket .............! cross fingers .
I had met François at a french track days a week ago (but no Bruno!) he was there with his beautiful Manx and wonderfull 750 Prodie Racer .....! a real pleasure to talk with him , a nice guy ( allready met at Spa last year ).
Click to expand...
Bonsoir l'ami,
Yes François is a nice guy, but you see only two of is wonderfull collection of bike and cars including Vincent Black Shadow and a Bugatti and mutch more, I never speak about this. You must ask Bruno to know more.... François is also a Golden Boy in the international financial world
Yves
 
jseng1 said:
Check to see what rubber they use on those gaskets. Norton cyl heads get hotter than most and will destroy most elastic materials. What works on watercooled motors may not work on overheating air cooled motors. You won't know until you try it.

Normal Norton head temp at cruzing approx 300 deg F

can get to appox 400 deg F at prolonged idle in hot weather

extreme conditions can show even higher temps
Click to expand...
Hi Jim, I explain to Elring all this parameters, whait and see
Yves
 
Thanks Yves, its that time of the year for 'magic helmets' here in New Zealand as well.
We await your R&D with head gaskets.
Regards Mike
 
Hi There, to day I try 26° advance, 28° before, and did a road test, my feeling is that I have less peak power and more bottom power
Tomorow I will call Elring to have some news
Keep you posted
Yves
 
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