Is the end of Ethanol approaching?

I don't think there is a fix for the current accelerating extinction event. I think its gone too far to fix and those with enough power to fix it before gone too far, are the main reason there is no fix. Alas don't care to bicker a bit over this as well beyond what our little opinions matter, so fuel up with what ever they serve and don't store the spiked gas too long.
 
hobot said:
I don't think there is a fix for the current accelerating extinction event. .

And you base this negativity on what knowledge of it ??

If, big if, burning fossil fuel ended tomorrow = instant fix ?

Not likely to happen, granted.
But the fix is there......
 
'Gasoline, all things considered, is the denser, safer, fuel.' I suggest this is misinformation. Petrol has a much higher vapour pressure and higher calorific value than ethanol. It also often has a benzene content.
 
acotrel said:
'Petrol has a much higher vapour pressure and higher calorific value than ethanol.

Have you actually looked at the numbers Alan ?
As an experiment, I ran a little B&S lawnmower on about 100% ethanol for a while,
and apart from being gutless when cold, and a bit hard to start, there wasn't much difference.
Main jet (adjustable on these little jiggers) needed to be tweaked, but only slightly.

acotrel said:
It also often has a benzene content.

Max benzene content has been legislated to be quite low these days.
Only a mere fraction of a fraction of a percent.

Its a byproduct of the refining, and tough to totally remove,
rather than deliberately added ??
 
xbacksideslider said:
Increased CO2 greens the planet

The fly in the ointment here is that CO2 also traps heat, rather than it just radiating back into space each night.
(THATS WHY ITS CALLED A GREENHOUSE GAS !!)

And increasing energy in the atmosphere, seas, landmass means more EXTREME CLIMATE.
More heatwaves, more blizzards, more droughts, more floods, bigger hurricanes and cylones.
More volatile climate all around. On average still the same though, its just the extremes are more extreme.

Some ag experiments here, under big glasshouses etc have injected in CO2, and found that with increasing temps and without more rainfall to compensate, yields of many common crops have fallen by 50% or more.
So the ag scientists here are scurrying to breed crop varieties that can better handle droughts, high temps, high rainfall, high mildew conditions, etc etc.

Forestry folks are looking for varieties that can handle more heat, the cool climate ones are seeing dieback, bigtime.
Cold water fish along the coast here are all retreating south, find cooler waters, the ocean is heating up....
Banana farmers hereabouts have had their crop wiped out by cyclones 3 years running.
They are saying if this is what its going to be like all the time, banana farming will be dead.
Local orange farmers said their orange crop this year was all sunburnt, unless it was middle of tree - whoever heard of that before ?

Big changes, fast changes, like nothing ever seen before, not much time for things to adapt... ?
 
I have mixed feelings trying to educate on world affairs such as the climate warming politic via mankind's C02 production so if my points are too much to take, take comfort in not following up as its so far gone it don't matter no more so just live it up best ya can like me with not a thought in the world of trying to save it anymore. I left a 20 yr long affair with Brit Iron list over Rohan nasty ignorant attitudes when i posted article about 15% ethanol in Europes and the implications for vinteage cycles. Rohan knows his cycle stuff but reacts with a chip on his shoulder at hobot anything but his is not my enemy just a mere worthy contestant so if ya dare search up >Earth Extinction Accelerating< to get some insight to my flippant BS attitude - do not show to your children as they should get some ignorant peace like we had before its too late to care. Yoose guy likely think its just bad management, like failure of BI cycle industry and hobot is an idiot like Rohan constantly implies - not a plot to end us all. Dump ass Rohan thinks its my opinion on this subject - but I can understand such mind melting recoil and ya can see what its done to me.

http://phys.org/news/2015-03-biofuel-po ... -food.html
A study published today in the journal Science found that government biofuel policies rely on reductions in food consumption to generate greenhouse gas savings.
Shrinking the amount of food that people and livestock eat decreases the amount of carbon dioxide that they breathe out or excrete as waste. The reduction in food available for consumption, rather than any inherent fuel efficiency, drives the decline in carbon dioxide emissions in government models, the researchers found.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-03-biofuel-po ... d.html#jCp


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-03-biofuel-po ... d.html#jCp
 
[quote="hobot" I left a 20 yr long affair with Brit Iron list[/quote]

Some of us seem to recall you were just posting off-topic crap, zero to do wif motorcycles,
and if there was more to it than that then you sure didn't explain any of it.

You were also THE most prolific poster on that list - and very little of them had anything to do with BritIron.
The Moderator was VERY generous to you on this, all considered.
Some of the 'advice' you gave was just plain dangerous a few times too, never a good sign...

I've never picked you as anything but a negative climate change skeptic.

This is somewhat off topic too, but moderator has not stepped in yet.

[And anyone who posts technical crap on motorcycles can expect to have to justify it - no free rides if its just nonsense.]
[Same as I'd expect if I did it too.... ]
[ A quick google to verify some facts BEFORE posting never goes astray, saves a lot of potential foot-in-mouth disease]
[ I'd comment I've not noticed that anyone can ever be 100% accurate]

There are gazillions of (conflicting) articles on CO2 and greenhouse gases and climate change etc.
You couldn't possibly keep up with them even if it was a full time job.
Posting just a cherry picked or random sample can't do the subject justice. ?
 
Rohan said:
Link isn't complete, so doesn't lead anywhere.

Having seen similar non-scientific discussions previously, would comment that hereabouts the ag scientists are scurrying to find or breed crop plants that can handle cooler/higher temps and more/less rainfall - by no means certain that current species can handle anything much different in more extreme climates, from experiments already done.

Same goes for tree species, fish species, bugs, butterflies, birds, etc etc etc, seems many things alive have a very narrow range of conditions they are adapted to. Cool climate trees here are already noted as heading for higher altitudes = they know when things are not right. And cool temp fish are heading for lower latitudes, the oceans iz warming.

But then this whole atmosphere/climate thing is one giant experiment with our planet, and no-one has any real idea where/what this will lead to.
If it goes badly wrong, as seems possible long term, maybe cockroaches really will inherit and rule the earth....

It also goes without saying that actually doing anything about any of this is going to require some serious lifestyle changes,
and none of the established players seem interested in doing much of anything about any of this.
So it is interesting that China is taking some serious and large steps, will they become the masters of the new technologies,
and build a futuristic and stronger economy out of it ??

The advantage China has, is if they decide to do something they can tell their people they're going to do it, whereas our politicians (on either side of the debate) have to convince the voting public of the veracity of scientific (or junk science) claims and the implications of doing whatever or doing nothing. The funny thing is, those on the "do nothing, everything is fine, it's all natural cycles" side of the argument use the money component to reinforce their argument, postulating that someone is just trying to get in their pockets and the argument hold some water because profits are reduced by doing the right thing environmentally. But if it weren't for the tree huggers, we'd all be breathing lead-polluted air, drinking chemically-infused water, and dying all that much quicker. Of course, THAT would help take care of the retirement expenses and elder-care problems.
 
Its a complicated issue for sure, and having 8 billions+ population involved, with all the money and lifestyle issues, doesn't make it any easier.

Chinese dictatorship better make the right choices, for all of us and the planets sake.
Ha, better go for a ride while its still possible....
 
hobot said:
and hobot is an idiot like Rohan constantly implies

I hope you have realised Steve, and I suspect not, that many many times I have TRIED to correct you on basic simple facts that you have stated wrong.
You obviously didn't google to check simple facts, or the wording came out wrong ?, but when you quote such simple wrongness, it totally destroys the accuracy of whatever you were on about. If you can't correctly quote the simple stuff, which parts of the complicated stuff should we believe.
Journalists just have to have all their facts right, or the story doesn't sit well with the reader.

I notice Comnoz corrected you on something basic and similar here the other day - but was very subtle about it.
We wonder if you even noticed, and made a mental note to correct that in your memory.

Sorry to be blunt, but it doesn't seem to get through otherwise.
And folks who know better grit their teeth and suck in a breath.
It really hurts to be told wrong 'facts', however brilliant the rest of the story is....
???

In a past life I used to proofread technical articles, now and then.
Old habits die hard. ?

P.S.
It is noticeable that since you have been only posting here, your posts have been far more pertinent and sensible,
and Commando and britbike related. And the fantasy element has faded, not sure if that is good or a loss,
but its certainly a different aura.
Remember, this is all just for fun......
 
Rohan said:
hobot said:
Rohan this fella agrees with you too.

You misrepresent me.
He and I would deeply disagree.

Hand this over to younger minds on the planet, since its their future,
and see how much action happens, rather than near total inaction currently.
Poking your head in the sand is a rather short term

Poking your head in the sand is what most baby boomers have been doing their entire lives. You can't burn through more resources in one generation than most preceding generations combined and not expect 'grave' consequences.
 
Regardless of whether you are a sceptic or alarmist, ethanol laced petrol is not relevant. The carbon footprint for straight gasoline, or for ethanol laced gas is virtually the same when considering all factors, including petrol used for growing, harvesting, and the fact that a gallon of ethanol laced gas does not carry us as far down the road as straight gas.

Ethanol gas is not only a bane to our vintage bikes, but to virtually every small engined appliance in everyday use, including lawn mowers, chainsaws, gensets, snow blowers, log splitters, etc., as well as our toys such as boats, ATV's, and wave runners. Most people have no clue their equipment is crapping out because of the fuel. My neighbor complained only yesterday, "a $2000 riding lawn mower, worked well for one season, now it runs like s@@t, if I can get it started at all".

It is my opinion, we suffer this for the benefit of Monsanto, not the environment.

And it is my opinion, backed by history, (both recorded and deduced by science) that we are overdue for a big chill, maybe even a big freeze. Man's impact on the environment may temper that chill.... and that will be of benefit to this overpopulated planet.

Slick
 
texasSlick said:
It is my opinion, we suffer this for the benefit of Monsanto, not the environment.

And it is my opinion, backed by history, (both recorded and deduced by science) that we are overdue for a big chill, maybe even a big freeze. Man's impact on the environment may temper that chill.... and that will be of benefit to this overpopulated planet.

Slick

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but Monsanto, being only a shadow of it's former giant self, is only one of many boogeymen in the ethanol woodpile.

And all evidence points to the opposite of a chill with global average temperatures rising, glaciers melting and sea levels on the rise as a result. Armadillos are moving north, Canadian Geese south and things generally pointing to further movement toward tropical climate.
 
texasSlick said:
And it is my opinion, backed by history, (both recorded and deduced by science) that we are overdue for a big chill, maybe even a big freeze. Man's impact on the environment may temper that chill.... and that will be of benefit to this overpopulated planet.
Slick

Speak for yourself, its getting durned warm down here lately.
Ocean temps are getting a tad warmish.
And thats what really drives the weather.

Is the end of Ethanol approaching?

Had 2 cyclones this month that went from Category 1 to Category 5 overnight. (Cat 5 is 300 km/hr winds)
The weather bureau has never seen this before, went from nothing to a monster in no time.
There was that monster in the Philippines last year too.

As the weather folk keep pointing out, global warming is wrong naming, its GLOBAL EXTREME CLIMATE.
On average everything is still average, its just the extremes are getting more extreme.

And have you been watching the atmospheric CO2 level charts ??
Thats whats putting the extra energy into the weather systems, the heat doesn't go back into space overnight.
They don't call it "greenhouse gases" for nothing...
 
No need to look for conspiracy theories everywhere hobot, or bogeymen under the bed.
Capitalism is all about $$$, so if there is a buck in it, someone will be there.

And as more than a few folks have pointed out, capitalism is all about the cheapest outcome, not the best solution.
If only those cavemen had written it down upside down, and we always went for the BEST outcome....

hobot said:
Here's another bigger scope on what powering man made global melt down controls. A bizarre & berserk situation that makes no sense and confuses which view to hold on our spiked gasoline and other social engineering. Its long but the gist nailed down right away.
http://disinfo.com/2015/03/dark-money-f ... rmation%29
 
Snorton74 said:
You can't burn through more resources in one generation than most preceding generations combined and not expect 'grave' consequences.

Aye, thats it in a nutshell.

Its those other 8.1 billion bums that are using MY resources that are the problem !!
 
Tex, you might find that when summer swings back up your way again, your local ocean temps are similarly warming.
Had any big hurricanes lately ?, we ask innocently.
Expecting any more.....

texasSlick said:
are overdue for a big chill, maybe even a big freeze. Man's impact on the environment may temper that chill.... and that will be of benefit to this overpopulated planet.

Is the end of Ethanol approaching?
 
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