Ignition help for dummies??..

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kempoyner

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I am restoring a 1970 commando 750s. I am ready to purchase the electronic ignition. I think I will go with the Pazon. Though I have built several choppers in the past, I am stupid about electrical stuff. All I know from studing to get my Hamm radio license is that it takes one amp to push one volt against one ohm of resistance....what ever the hell that means. Anyhow, the ignition comes in 6 volt or 12 volt. I plan on buying new coils too. Can someone tell me what is best and what else do I need to change if I go 12 volt? Keep it simple as I really know nothing about voltage meters and stuff like that.
kem
 
kempoyner said:
Can someone tell me what is best and what else do I need to change if I go 12 volt?
Click to expand...

All Commandos have 12V (positive earth/ground as standard) electrical systems.

A 1970 model would normally have had two 12V coils. 1971-on models had two 6V coils with a ballast resistor.

If you buy a Pazon or other "wasted spark" EI then "two 6V coils" wired in series (refer to the particular EI manufacturer's instructions), or "one 12V dual output coil" is the usual recommendation.
 
Hi,
The Pazon can be used for either positive or negative earth but it is important you you have the right type of ignition coils.

So find out first what voltage rating coils you have first.

If they are 6v then no problem as they can be re-wired, but if 12v then note that a dual output coil will cost much more than two new 6v coils and you will also have to figure out how to mount it.

They also recommend that you also fit leads with copper cores and caps with 5k ohm resistors (Supressor caps).

The installation instructions are good and can be found on this forum or with a search.

Regards,
Sean
 
I just received a Pazon Altair in the mail, not installed yet, however the kit does come with the correct suppressor caps for the plugs, not wires though. As Player and L.A.B. said two six volt coils are fine with this unit but if you are for sure going to get new coils anyway, Pazon can supply them too.
 
Matt once ya get above about 30kv of coil energy the soft x-rays emitted take the riders future family out of the picture.
 
hobot said:
Matt once ya get above about 30kv of coil energy the soft x-rays emitted take the riders future family out of the picture.
Click to expand...


Ya not making Lasers to zap your family from the family photos then :?: :( :shock:
 
kempoyner said:
I am restoring a 1970 commando 750s. I am ready to purchase the electronic ignition. I think I will go with the Pazon. Though I have built several choppers in the past, I am stupid about electrical stuff. All I know from studing to get my Hamm radio license is that it takes one amp to push one volt against one ohm of resistance....what ever the hell that means. Anyhow, the ignition comes in 6 volt or 12 volt. I plan on buying new coils too. Can someone tell me what is best and what else do I need to change if I go 12 volt? Keep it simple as I really know nothing about voltage meters and stuff like that.
kem
Click to expand...
Simply put, 6 volt coils in series, 12 volt coils in parallel.

If you want to really simplify, go to a Dynacoil DC7-1. Pazon units love this coil. You have a wasted spark system anyhow, might as well go with a duel output unit.

If original look is wanted, the Trispark coils are said to be top notch.
 
pete.v said:
Simply put, 6 volt coils in series, 12 volt coils in parallel.
Click to expand...

None of the currently available wasted spark ignition manufacturers recommends connecting (either 6V or 12V) coils "in parallel".
 
L.A.B. said:
pete.v said:
Simply put, 6 volt coils in series, 12 volt coils in parallel.
Click to expand...

None of the currently available wasted spark ignition manufacturers recommends connecting (either 6V or 12V) coils "in parallel".
Click to expand...

Well there ya go, 6 volt in series or a single duel output coil. LAB, is that safe to say?
 
pete.v said:
L.A.B. said:
pete.v said:
Simply put, 6 volt coils in series, 12 volt coils in parallel.
Click to expand...

None of the currently available wasted spark ignition manufacturers recommends connecting (either 6V or 12V) coils "in parallel".
Click to expand...

Well there ya go, 6 volt in series or a single duel output coil. LAB, is that safe to say?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Boyer Bransden and Pazon say that two 12V (single output) coils (also wired edit: in series) can be used with some of their systems-although both recommend two 6V coils (or one 12V dual coil with a certain Ohms rating).
 
pete.v said:
L.A.B. said:
pete.v said:
Simply put, 6 volt coils in series, 12 volt coils in parallel.
Click to expand...

None of the currently available wasted spark ignition manufacturers recommends connecting (either 6V or 12V) coils "in parallel".
Click to expand...

Well there ya go, 6 volt in series or a single duel output coil. LAB, is that safe to say?
Click to expand...

Yes, 12v coils in parallel will not work well, the spark will be very weak.

Jean
 
Pazon recommends you go to 2 6V coils on the Commando. Mine had 12V coils, I got a couple of Emgo 6V coils and one of them went bad within a year, but they're only like $30 or so each. Got mine from MAP in FL with a set of new HT wires. All kinds of options out there though, even with the Pazon. I wanted the original look. You should be happy with the Pazon, the instructions are well done. Set it and forget it.

Dave
69S
 
Jeandr said:
Yes, 12v coils in parallel will not work well, the spark will be very weak.
Click to expand...

Connecting the coils in parallel can damage the electronic ignition.

The Pazon instructions specifically warns against wiring coils in parallel, this also applies to Boyer Bransden ignitions.

http://www.pazon.com/files/PDF/PA2.pdf
Ignition Coils
When using the standard arrangement of two ignition coils (whether 12
Volt or 6 Volt), they must be connected in series, as shown in the wiring
diagrams on page 7. Do not connect the coils in parallel.
Click to expand...
 
OK, that's great information, but I am still confused. What makes a bike a 12 volt rather than a 6? Is it the size of the battery? I have a 1970. I bought a new wiring harness and want to keep the look of the two separate coils. I want to buy new coils anyway. Pazon comes in a 12v and a 6v version. Which do I need and what else needs to be changed out...fuse, cluster bulbs, alternator ( do I need single or three phase or magnetic?) or anything else? Sorry if I sound like I'm in over my head...I am pretty good and everything else.

To recap my question which Pazon do I want to get?
 
kempoyner said:
OK, that's great information, but I am still confused. What makes a bike a 12 volt rather than a 6? Is it the size of the battery? I have a 1970. I bought a new wiring harness and want to keep the look of the two separate coils. I want to buy new coils anyway. Pazon comes in a 12v and a 6v version. Which do I need and what else needs to be changed out...fuse, cluster bulbs, alternator ( do I need single or three phase or magnetic?) or anything else? Sorry if I sound like I'm in over my head...I am pretty good and everything else.

To recap my question which Pazon do I want to get?
Click to expand...

All the electrical devices are 12V specific. As mentioned, all Commandoes are 12V. The confusing part is the 6V coils... that was a measure used to get a good big spark while STARTING ONLY with a 12V (nominal) battery. A ballast resister would then cut the voltage down to run.
You most surely need a 12V ignition unit from Pazon, and the coils you need to buy will be 6V. (Pazon sells them included with your order). Any better? http://www.pazon.com/ignition-system/su ... 2volt.html
 
kempoyner said:
OK, that's great information, but I am still confused. What makes a bike a 12 volt rather than a 6? Is it the size of the battery?
Click to expand...

Battery, bulbs, charging system, wiring, coils (pre-71).



kempoyner said:
I have a 1970. I bought a new wiring harness and want to keep the look of the two separate coils. I want to buy new coils anyway. Pazon comes in a 12v and a 6v version. Which do I need
Click to expand...

The standard Commando electrical system is 12V therefore you need a 12V electronic ignition system, but, as the coils must be wired in series two 6V coils (thus 6V + 6V = 12V) generally gives better results than two 12V coils in series in a 12V system.

kempoyner said:
and what else needs to be changed out...fuse, cluster bulbs, alternator ( do I need single or three phase or magnetic?) or anything else?
Click to expand...

As the system is already 12V you shouldn't have to change anything else.
 
concours said:
The confusing part is the 6V coils... that was a measure used to get a good big spark while STARTING ONLY with a 12V (nominal) battery. A ballast resister would then cut the voltage down to run.
Click to expand...

The ballast resistor would be bypassed only during electric starting. The 1971-'74 models had the ballast resistor and two 6V coils in preparation for the original electric starter system which proved to be too fragile to be put into production so the Commando didn't get an electric starter until '75 even though the 6V coils, ballast resistor and associated wiring had been there since '71. Up to '71 Commandos had two 12V coils and no ballast resistor.
 
kempoyner said:
To recap my question which Pazon do I want to get?
Click to expand...
Get any of the Pazon 12V systems for the Norton, SureFire, Altair, however much loot you want to spend. The coils you can get either from them or anywhere as long as they are 6V coils, they will be hooked up in series so it makes a 12V system. Actually MAP in FL carries the Pazon, about $170 and the coils a choice of high output ($70) or regular ($23). I have my serious doubts about the high output. I'm not pushing MAP, it's just that you may get it a bit faster, but maybe not. I'm sure lots of other places will carry the same things. I just found MAP to have competitive prices. I'd suggest new HT wires too.

Read the Pazon instructions on line and it will explain everything. No use our repeating it here. You'll have to read it when you get it anyhow. It's not magic.

Report back when it's done and tell us how much better it is than the AAU.
 
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