Wheelbuilding 102 for Dummies

swooshdave said:

Flanged alloy 19in WM2 with Stainless Spoke and Nickel plated nipples. I'll note if the vendor doesn't specifically call out these exact specs.

Pricing:

Buchanan's
Rims $225ea (Excel)(Wm2 or WM3)
Spoke Kit $85.40ea
$628.80

Walridge
Rims CAN$220.45ea (VALANTE AND MORAD)(WM3 $250.79ea)
Spoke Kit CAN$89.95ea
CAN$620.80

Steadfast
Rims $187.50ea (Excel)(WM3 +$10)
Spoke Kit $120ea (I suspect these are SS spoke and nipples)
$615

CNW
Rims $203/204 (I have NO idea why the rims are different prices but these are WM3s)
Spoke Kit $93ea (I believe this is with SS nipples)
$593 (This price reflects an email from Matt on 8/5/2010 and the current website)

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I got updated pricing from Steadfast on their WM3 wheels, they are $10 more per wheel. Which put them just a hair under the CNW price.

I think I have heard about different lacing patterns than stock on Commando wheels.

From Steadfast's ebay page:

I have pictured the rear rim laced up to show the lacing pattern. You will not get the spokes or the hub, you are only getting the two bare rims. The rear laces different from stock but uses the stock spokes. This new lacing pattern offers more strength to the rear wheel.

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Does everyone do this? I've emailed them back for more clarification.

I've done a bike wheel, but I wouldn't try a mc wheel- maybe a spool hub :lol: . Not that I wouldn't want to learn, but I just figure they can do it way better than I ever could. Buchanan's throws in a checklist of stuff they check and list the torque spoke tension- which is different per side

Would you be able to post that list Please? Phil

for my mk3 wheels final inspection
trueness
spoke tension- front 55-65"/lbs brake side, 20-30"/lbs non brake side (keep in mind thicker gage spokes than stock)
rear 45-55"/lbs brake side, 25-35"/lbs drive side
nipple to spoke alignment
spoke to hub fitment
rim offset
hub true to bearing mount
fit and finish
and of course does everything match the work order


Who knows if they actually check everything, but it made me feel better getting the checklist :lol:

Option C -
If your original rims are good, send them with the hubs to Buchanans. Stainless spokes and nipples look awesome with chromed Dunlop rims, and don't worry about "galling".

Option D -
If your rims are toast, get a pair off eBay (new or used), then send them to Buchanans. I did that for my front wheel and was thrilled at the results.

Option E -
If you really want alloy rims... never mind.

maylar said:

Option C -
If your original rims are good, send them with the hubs to Buchanans. Stainless spokes and nipples look awesome with chromed Dunlop rims, and don't worry about "galling".

Option D -
If your rims are toast, get a pair off eBay (new or used), then send them to Buchanans. I did that for my front wheel and was thrilled at the results.

Option E -
If you really want alloy rims... never mind.

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E please. Would anything else look right on my bike? :mrgreen:

ps. Rear rim was ok, something about an oil bath that keeps the chrome nice. Front rim... not so nice. Good rims aren't hard to find, someone in the local club was practically giving one away.

Lacing wheels is not rocket science, here is a short photo primer of how I do mine. First separate the spokes, the short bend spokes are the first to be used...



Insert those from the outside of the hub towards the insides, insert one spoke, skip a hole insert the next one... do both sides the same way.



Angle the spokes one way on one side and the other way on the other side making sure the top set of spokes are not under any of the bottom spokes



Put oil on the spoke threads (special oil for stainless steel spokes)



Put the first spoke in any hole with the correct angle and thread a nipple one, a few turns is all that is required at this point



Skip 3 holes and insert the next spoke and thread on a nipple



Do one side completely



Then do the other, the right angle holes should fall at the right place, if they don't you did something wrong



The other spokes can then be inserted and put in their right place



Then it's a matter of truing the wheel, best way is to get it correct up and down first, then do side to side. I can get the wheels within .005" to .010"









Jean

[Quote deleted - L.A.B.]

Jean,
That sure makes it look easy, but as Ive found with my bike, it may not be! I am about to rebuild my wheels, hopefully myself. Ive read that the hubs are offset on commandos, is this true? If so how did you account for this when you did yours. Thanks

mattthomas4444 said:

Jean,
That sure makes it look easy, but as Ive found with my bike, it may not be! I am about to rebuild my wheels, hopefully myself. Ive read that the hubs are offset on commandos, is this true? If so how did you account for this when you did yours. Thanks

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Holy Requote, Batman!

And that's not a Norton wheel and I too want to know about offsets. Also about alternative spoke patterns on the Norton drums.

If you hadn't guessed the purpose of this thread will be a tutorial on all the things I've learned about wheelbuilding, like Jean's but with Norton wheels. :mrgreen:

Hah, I did question myself before requoting that message, probably came to the wrong decision!

Yes, Ive been watching this thread closely, I was assuming that Jean had also done a set of norton wheels, maybe he hasnt.

Looking forward to the rest of your thread though!

Jean, you're one clever man and patient aswell! Top Job!!
Mmmmm..... do people have to quote all those photos? Sorry if I sound picky but there are some computers in parts of the world are slow to down load so much information. Mines OK as I have satellite link because of my remote locality, just tinking of others :idea: .

mattthomas4444 said:

Hah, I did question myself before requoting that message, probably came to the wrong decision!

Yes, Ive been watching this thread closely, I was assuming that Jean had also done a set of norton wheels, maybe he hasnt.

Looking forward to the rest of your thread though!

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These are Norton wheels... well they will go on a Norton. The front is a Grimeca 4LS and that is the one in the first pictures, the one being measured for run out is my back wheel which is a Yamaha DT250 back wheel, it has a nice cush hub and just FYI, it is both offset and it has different sizes on each side of the hub. The offset I wasn't worried about, I just pushed it as far as I could to one side and I will make the spacers to fit when the time comes to line it up. I have done many wheels and the principle remains the same. I bought the rims and the spokes from Bucchanan's and they are not standard for any of the wheels yet they came out perfect, the spokes are the right length, the angles of the holes drilled in the rims are just right. So far Bucchanan's has a perfect record with me.

Jean

PS Matt, old messages can be edited and the reposted pictures removed in your reply.

Thanks Jean,
Hopefully my inexperienced post will be no longer.

This may also sound inexperienced however. Is the rear hub the only offset one or are both front (disc type) and rear offset?

And to Swooshdave, sorry for asking these questions on your thread, I didnt want to start an brand new one for just one (hopefully quick) question.
Matt

mattthomas4444 said:

Thanks Jean,
Hopefully my inexperienced post will be no longer.

This may also sound inexperienced however. Is the rear hub the only offset one or are both front (disc type) and rear offset?

And to Swooshdave, sorry for asking these questions on your thread, I didnt want to start an brand new one for just one (hopefully quick) question.
Matt

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The normal Norton rear hub is supposed to be centered AFAIK, so is the Norton front drum hub, only the front disk hub is offset (the rear disk could be too, but I have never done one)

The rear hub I will be using is offset, but then its not meant to be on a Norton :wink:

Jean

mattthomas4444 said:

Thanks Jean,
Hopefully my inexperienced post will be no longer.

This may also sound inexperienced however. Is the rear hub the only offset one or are both front (disc type) and rear offset?

And to Swooshdave, sorry for asking these questions on your thread, I didnt want to start an brand new one for just one (hopefully quick) question.
Matt

Click to expand...

Nope, this is all about Wheelbuilding. Anything about wheels is welcome.

Dave,
I know I am probably stating the obvious but here I go anyway.

So my inexperienced guess is with a stock Norton hub I am sure it could be laced up in several different lacing patterns other than the typical two cross pattern. Of course it would need to be a 40 hole rim and the rim must be drilled to accommodate the selected lacing pattern. Then you could calculate the spoke length and determine the correct bend. Fortunately, a good wheel supplier will do the calculations providing you get the measurement of the hub and rim correct.

Jean, has provided an exceptionally clear step by step on lacing. Providing you keep track of the spoke bend and lace the spokes in the proper hole, the lacing should be easy.

Spoke tension affects both the roundness or hop and trueness of the wheel or wobble. I was always taught to get the hop out then true, but you don't want to let either get vary far out. I always start at the tube hole as a reference. I work my way around the rim counting the revolutions of the nipples to get the slack out of the spokes. This should keep the tension close and help maintain roundness.

Taking a wobble out is something you need to finesse out by either tensioning or loosing nipples. The number one rule is never concentrate on only one nipple, the adjacent nipples on the same side also need to be adjusted. Work in small increments, say a 1/4 turn of the nipple at the center and only an 1/8 of a turn on the adjacent nipples.

If you have an old bicycle wheel get the correct spoke wrench an play with it. The biggest problem is that old wheels usually have the nipples seized on the spokes so the spokes wind-up rather than tension.

Thanks for putting this thread together.
Gary
If you want to know about wheel theory, or need a bedtime companion, get a copy of "the Bicycle Wheel", by Jobst Brandt. Most of the information applies to all spoked wheels. http://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Wheel-3rd ... 0960723668

As I mentioned previously I have heard that there is an alternative spoke pattern for the drum hub Norton wheels. This is apparently what Steadfast uses. I don't know what CNW or Buchanan's uses.

This is a photo of the Steadfast pattern. Can anyone tell what is different from a stock wheel? Uses the stock spokes but may be drilled differently.

swooshdave said:

As I mentioned previously I have heard that there is an alternative spoke pattern for the drum hub Norton wheels. This is apparently what Steadfast uses. I don't know what CNW or Buchanan's uses.

This is a photo of the Steadfast pattern. Can anyone tell what is different from a stock wheel? Uses the stock spokes but may be drilled differently.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I thought I saw a difference but its laced the same as Jean's. I need to find a stock wheel to look at. One other variable can be the direction of the spokes. The wheel pictured shows the outside spokes facing backwards, I believe one could start with the outside spokes facing forward and achieve a similar two cross pattern. I have heard this choice affects the wheel strength or ability to resist certain forces. Not sure if it fact or rumor!

Would tourqing the nipples to the same setting make truing easier, or does each spoke end up a bit different?