Ignition & Fusebox

JimC said:

Robert,

Some of us could probably benefit from your expertise. How does one put out the fire on your just restored Norton?

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Hopefully that won't ever happen Jim. This is my 4th Commando, my first bought in 1975 when I was 19, it was an 850 and I loved it , I really, really did, I learned to work on bikes on it, unfortunately it was stolen in 1977 and it broke my heart, the feeling walking down the garden to where the bike is normally parked, and it not being there is just awful. I even walked round to the front of the house thinking I may have left it parked on the street, but knowing deep down I didn't! never ever saw it again, well the police circulating the wrong reg. number for 2 weeks didn't help. That bike was my pride and joy, 12 months of the year I used it and it was always spotless, in fact I still ride all year, hail , rain or snow!
Ah well enough of the reminising, I got a bike to sort out....
Thanks again

Some of us could probably benefit from your expertise. How does one put out the fire on your just restored Norton?

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JimC,
Not to start a new thread, but a friend tried to start his newly restored Rocket Gold Star in his garage, caught the bike on fire which quickly caught some nearby cardboard on fire. Luckily he got the bike out of the garage and smothered it with a nearby moving blanket and kicked the burning cardboard out of the garage. The only casualties were singed arms and a smoky ceiling.

Lesson learned - My shop has four easily reached fire extinguishers and bikes are not started inside the shop unless some one is standing by with an extinguisher at hand.

Ron,

Good advice. A fire extinguisher is probably the most important tool one can have in the shop. Robert, being a fire fighter, can probably give us some do's and don'ts on the subject.

JimC said:

Ron,

Good advice. A fire extinguisher is probably the most important tool one can have in the shop. Robert, being a fire fighter, can probably give us some do's and don'ts on the subject.

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Sorry as you asked!!!!!

[Oh YES!!!! don't let an untrained lunatic, (or a trained lunatic for that matter, and there are many), anywhere near a fire with an extinguisher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You would not believe the number of people who, at least injure themselves, (and others), or worse trying, to put out a fire; but as we are all responsible adults on this site :roll: a simple , basic one is handy, one that can be used by everyone from Fozzy bear to Einstein.
The save the world brigade has had a lot of extinguishers banned because of substances in them, NO not those substances!!!!!!! :shock: the ones that will prevent a Polar bear from making it's house in your back garden within the next few years because there is no ice up there.
Water is a no no for a garage... go on I know you want to try it on an electrical fire or petrol or oil, oh go on! look at the lovely big glow and we can see the sky too now!
Foam's ok but you will need lots of it and don't use it on electricity... nice sparks ... no eyebrows, it makes a mess and stinks... like a baby really!
Best will be either a CO2 or a dry powder both will do electrics petrol and oil, but again both have their +'s &-'s, (getting right into this electrical stuff!) if it's a CO2 hold the HANDLE not the body, or your hand will freeze to it, somebody will try it just to prove me wrong I know it!! if you do get stuck , ask the Polar bear in your garden why he doesn't stick to the ice or even better how to get the extinguisher off your hand!
Dry powder is exactly that, again will do most , but WHAT a mess, everything is covered in powder, and it does not cool the item that is on fire, so have something else handy, you could use talcum powder it is basically the same thing only cheaper.
A blanket can be very useful for smothering , basic but good!
Very basic... can of Coke or beer shake it up, what do you get ?.... Foam under pressure, I have seen it used 8)
What do I have in my workshop???? nothing
But seriously guys, it is sometimes better to leave it than take the risk, I know we would all go for it but if you have the slightest doubt or it's getting a bit dodgy leave it ... if you don't and it goes pear shaped, can i have any Norton sparesyou have lying around?
Sorry if it's off thread but it was mentioned, but feel free to chop.
Cheers guys

As I am re wiring the bike should I go over to Negative earth or leave as it is?, it's a Boyer power box I have on and will probably fitting a Tri-spark ignition both of which can be fitted either way. Any pros and cons?

Robert,
There's nothing wrong with a positive ground system. Since you have the Boyer Power Box you might as well go to a negative ground. If you plan on running modern electronic devices, such as, L.E.D.s, gps, charging cell phones, radar detectors, etc., you'll need a negative ground.

JimC said:

Robert,
There's nothing wrong with a positive ground system. Since you have the Boyer Power Box you might as well go to a negative ground. If you plan on running modern electronic devices, such as, L.E.D.s, gps, charging cell phones, radar detectors, etc., you'll need a negative ground.

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Hi Jim, I don't plan on running all the fancy stuff, but may later fit led indicators and possibly a led rear light, I read somewhere that led's are polarity sensitive so I may as well go for the negative earth while I'm doing the wiring. I changed my A65 L/c to negative 12v when I did it, so if I required a jump start any time it would be simple. Also the electronic regulator and ignition are very simple to change it's just a matter of changing over wires.

Sounds like a plan, Robert.

Jump starting is always positive to positive, negative to negative. If source vehicle has a different polarity ground then the vehicles must not make contact, i.e., metal to metal.

JimC said:

Sounds like a plan, Robert.

Jump starting is always positive to positive, negative to negative. If source vehicle has a different polarity ground then the vehicles must not make contact, i.e., metal to metal.

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Thanks for that, I take it there would be no change to the starter wiring if I went to -?

rbt11548 said:

I take it there would be no change to the starter wiring if I went to -?

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If you reverse the starter motor's polarity then I think that will make it turn backwards?

I know that it's possible to alter the rotation of the standard starter motor if the 4-brush conversion kit is fitted by changing the brush positions in their holders. I'm not sure what would be required for a normal 2-brush starter.

L.A.B. said:

rbt11548 said:

I take it there would be no change to the starter wiring if I went to -?

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If you reverse the starter motor's polarity then I think that will make it turn backwards?


Hi L.A.B. that was the very thing that crossed my mind and the reason I asked. At the end of the day I am doing the wiring to get rid of a lot of the unneccessary stuff and clean it up by renewing dodgy connections etc.
I moved on from just wanting a clean up to sounding out you guys about fuses and the relays, which when explained to me made a lot of sense to fit, (even if it did take me a wee while to grasp), I sat down and drew out the relay wiring & connections for what I needed, one sketch for each item and wrote down instructions on where I am going to run the wires, I have also done preliminary wiring drawing for different parts of the bike, I still have to figure out the best place for my fuse box, I think it will be either in the battery area or in the gap just behind the soleniod. I also stripped down the switches and cleaned 30+ years of gunge from the contacts.
I feel I am getting there; the only reason I was going to change to Negative earth was as stated in the above post, and to be honest, if there is going to be hassle regarding polarity and the starter motor, it's a bit of hassle I could do without and I'll probably leave it on Positive earth.
I'l find out about it possibly running backwards and let you know

Rotational direction of a DC motor is changed by reversing polarity. A starter is a hi torque DC motor.

Jim,
In the 60s it was the thing to do change polarity on your mini etc. We would just swap the coil and battery leads over flash the positive to earth and start the bugger up. There is a reason why the motor ran the same direction but for the life of me I can't remember.
Cash

JimC said:

Rotational direction of a DC motor is changed by reversing polarity. A starter is a hi torque DC motor.

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Hi, Jim,
I spoke to an auto electrician last night and he said he had swapped cars from pos to neg without any problems, I think I'll try it off the bike and see what happens. At the end of the day the change was not something I was desperate to do, I just thought if I needed to use something from a modern vehicle the bike would be neg earth. If it is ok, it is ok, if not it doesn't really matter.

Very well could be. I really don't know why. I'm probably missing something.

JimC said:

Very well could be. I really don't know why. I'm probably missing something.

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Hi Jim, I wasn't questioning you, as usual there are lots of different opinions, views and experiences on the 'net it's just finding the right one, as I said I'll try and test it off the bike and see, I don't use the thing anyway I always kick the bike over, but it's better to have it working... hold on .... Norton starter and working in the same sentence??????.
Have you decided on an extinguisher yet?

I was going to suggest you test it off the bike. Sounds like a plan.

As for extinguishers, I have dry chemical ones in the house, garage, car and motorhome. So far, so good.

I've just tested my own starter, and it does turn in the same direction when the polarity is reversed.

JimC said:

I was going to suggest you test it off the bike. Sounds like a plan.

As for extinguishers, I have dry chemical ones in the house, garage, car and motorhome. So far, so good.

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I'll need to think about getting one as all my electrical stuff came yesterday for the re wire, the fuse box, relays, cables etc. I probably bought too many connectors etc. but I'd rather have that than be short, I can always use them for other jobs. I'm going to attach the fusebox to the frame tube that runs down at and angle from the main spine to just below the battery box, to attach it I am using 2 frame clamps that I had from a previous Commando which are normally used to secure the grab rail, they fit nice and securely, and by putting it there still leaves a good bit of room for my powerbox. I'm actually looking forward to the challenge.

L.A.B. said:

I've just tested my own starter, and it does turn in the same direction when the polarity is reversed.

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That's interesting. I'm thinking a starter is a D.C. motor and D.C. motors change direction with polarity. I can't say electric motors are my strong suit, but it's got me wondering why......