Health Care or Wealth Care

gortnipper said:
Parking is free here at hospitals...if on a motorbike.

GP - it is not the Lawyers that are the problem, it is the system that enables them that is. PICS, Lobbyists, tax laws... all designed to separate the small fry from their $$$. The system woks well for that.
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Like I said, the "system" that enables them, was CREATED by them.
 
Craig said:
.... I have had same surgery 2 times on my rt knee both instances .... from injury to surgery was 2 years ....
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A lot of PERMANENT, non-repairable, damage can happen in 2 years if left untreated (depending on the medical issue)...
 
Landspeedracer said:
I’m due to get the results by the end of the week when he’s also scheduled me for a cortisone injection in my finger knuckle area. So, what would that have cost me so far in the US?
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I had a cortisone shot in my lower back last year. Out patient surgical center, anesthesiologist, attending orthopedics doc, support nurses etc. Took all of an hour. $8,000 US, of which insurance covered $6000. And it wore off after 6 months...
 
I’m so sad to hear that, I really do despair at times for your nation :(

it would be cheaper for you to travel to Thailand and get treatment. I have a golfing friend who lives mostly over there and he reckons their system is amazing.
 
In Australia, hospital care is the same as schooling, a free system exists for everyone or you can choose to pay to use a parallel private system (and insure yourself for at least some of the cost). You can also mix and match the two systems, so for example if you have cancer you may choose the private system for your surgery (and pay for it), but then use the free public system for your chemotherapy and radiotherapy. Primary care (GPs) are heavily subsidised by the government as are pharmaceuticals. If an item is on what's called the Pharmaceutical Benefits Schedule it'll cost you about $10, with the government picking up the rest of the actual cost. To my mind healthcare and education should be available to everyone regardless of how wealthy they are.
 
In Australia, we have a different approach to freedom and a lot of our strength lies in collectivism. We usually care enough for other people not to disregard their well-being. If you have large disadvantaged groups in your country, they often adversely affect your own quality of life. My approach is 'if they are happy, I am happy'. The cost of a decent health care system has to be judged alongside the downside. The longer people live, the more likely they are to help the next generation improve the way they do things.
 
bsaboss said:
In Australia, hospital care is the same as schooling, a free system exists for everyone or you can choose to pay to use a parallel private system (and insure yourself for at least some of the cost). You can also mix and match the two systems, so for example if you have cancer you may choose the private system for your surgery (and pay for it), but then use the free public system for your chemotherapy and radiotherapy. Primary care (GPs) are heavily subsidised by the government as are pharmaceuticals. If an item is on what's called the Pharmaceutical Benefits Schedule it'll cost you about $10, with the government picking up the rest of the actual cost. To my mind healthcare and education should be available to everyone regardless of how wealthy they are.
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In Australia if you want elective surgery done as a public patient, you might have to wait. But anything urgent is usually done immediately, whether you have insurance or not. If you have private cover, you pay the gap between your insurance cover and the actual cost. I had a double by-pass heart op which cost me $100 total (pharmacy bill). The guy in the bed opposite me paid $4000 - had private cover.
 
There is no such animal as Free health care, either private individuals pay for their own health requirements or the Govt uses taxpayers money to do the same. There are good and bad private schemes and good and bad tax payer funded schemes. The US looks from the outside to have an expensive private health care system, the UK from a too often user has a bad Govt funded health care system which uses queueing to ration its resources. France and Germany use Govt funded health insurance schemes which from looking the outside provide a more effective half way house, they cost more than the UK but not the same as the US. In France and Germany all get the basics covered by the Govt with few queues and the better off can can pay supplementary insurance for better coverage.
 
Big reason US is so expensive is health care is a private industry, not a basic citizen right. I'm lucky to have worked for the PO which puts me in the Federal Health Care system if I care to use it. Actually I have a combo of Medicare (old age benefits for anyone for a price) and the Federal system. Just last year several of the providers started giving discounts if you use both, so I now get health care at 'no extra' cost to me for a total of about $325/month for the both of us. Pretty certain if one buys HC on the open market for 2 or a family it can be well over $1K/mo easy.
 
DogT said:
Big reason US is so expensive is health care is a private industry, not a basic citizen right. I'm lucky to have worked for the PO which puts me in the Federal Health Care system if I care to use it. Actually I have a combo of Medicare (old age benefits for anyone for a price) and the Federal system. Just last year several of the providers started giving discounts if you use both, so I now get health care at 'no extra' cost to me for a total of about $325/month for the both of us. Pretty certain if one buys HC on the open market for 2 or a family it can be well over $1K/mo easy.
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That's great for you. But I looked at your cost to you, $325 a month, and realised none of the poor could conceivably afford this.
 
That's why they started the ACA or Obamacare. If you make less than a certain amount, the feds subsidize it. But they made it mandatory to have HC so a lot of people that make a half way decent salary, it's very expensive for HC if not in a company plan or Federal plan. As I've said before, I really think they should just put every one on Medicare, not make them get it, it would preclude the poor however. That's the American way. Unless the whole system is changed, someone is going to get gored. Only way to change the system is get the money out of HC, make it a citizen benefit, but somehow we would still have to pay with taxes and to some tax is an evil word, have to have their so called 'liberty or freedom' from the gommint. I'm willing to pay my share if the corporations and rich do too. I would hardly call myself rich, although I can afford what I need, unlike a lot. Yeah, I'm probably in the top 10%. I'd still rather see things more equitable, it would benefit all of us, in my opinion.
 
I’ve just returned from a trip to my doctor. After a couple of checks and a review of my X-ray results, it’s down to wear and tear and arthritis setting in. My Depuytrens affected little finger will later need an operation if it gets worse. I would offer to pay if it was necessary to get something done quicker.
So, I’ve come away this morning after 2 cortisone injections and a tube of cream for a rash. Cost me nowt as prescriptions are free for over 65s.
I know we do tend to complain about our health service (but then we complain about everything) but overall it’s very good. The nurses are truly angels and aren’t appreciated enough.
 
Landspeedracer said:
I’ve just returned from a trip to my doctor. After a couple of checks and a review of my X-ray results, it’s down to wear and tear and arthritis setting in. My Depuytrens affected little finger will later need an operation if it gets worse. I would offer to pay if it was necessary to get something done quicker.
So, I’ve come away this morning after 2 cortisone injections and a tube of cream for a rash. Cost me nowt as prescriptions are free for over 65s.
I know we do tend to complain about our health service (but then we complain about everything) but overall it’s very good. The nurses are truly angels and aren’t appreciated enough.
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It's over 60's (but don't tell everybody!!)
 
People often forget that in USA your job usually comes with some sort of health insurance some good some less so. If you work for the guvmint or a big company or a company that is successful you usually get pretty good insurance.
You must remember that "free" never is because it may be free for you at the point of use but the taxpayer pays eventually. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
 
Onder said:
People often forget that in USA your job usually comes with some sort of health insurance some good some less so. If you work for the guvmint or a big company or a company that is successful you usually get pretty good insurance.
You must remember that "free" never is because it may be free for you at the point of use but the taxpayer pays eventually. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
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I agree wholeheartedly with your 2nd statement, but most jobs in the US do not include healthcare and the number of uninsured continues to grow. Many of those "healthcare included" jobs require the person to pay out of their paychecks. My middle daughter is a nurse at a county-run old folks home and her health insurance, which includes her husband and 5-month-old son takes $1000/month from her check. Business priorities (profit) have gotten in the way of employers providing healthcare for employees and "usually" the most they do is offer access to a pool that reduces costs.

In the US, exorbitant medical costs are the leading cause of personal bankruptcy, which is often the only way the patient can retain possession of their home,.
 
I had no insurance at all until I was 42. My total use of it was less than 10k over all those years. I spent 3x that on my teeth.
Some people are predisposed to illness others blessed with rude health. It is a tough call when you are healthy as I am
to be willing to fund a national health scheme. You live here in UK you will soon see how it is funded. It bites. Hard.
Like so many things it depends on where you stand, whose ox is being gored.
 
Wifie worked for the Washington Post from maybe '65-06, 40 years. To start they had 'profit sharing'. The company would just give you a portion of the profits for retirement, of course back then they were making big bucks. Sometime in the 80's? they bought back all the profit shares (Berkshire Hathaway) and flipped it to a personal 401K. She still contributed to that. They also provided decent HC. One time she got a ruptured appendix (in the 70's) and was in the hosp maybe 3 weeks and a couple months recovery. They not only paid the hospital (through their HC insurance) they paid us an extra salary every week just because she was sick (some kind of insurance benefit). Then when she went back to work, they forgave her HC leave, like she'd never taken it. Companies then were interested in their help. Now the WPO is like everyone else, nickel and dime everyone to death. Retirement benefits, non existant now. My wife not only got her 401k she also got a very substantial retirement annuity from the WPO plus her SS. They also give her a yearly stipend to cover her healthcare beneifts. It more than pays for our Fed HC benefits, although 'I' never see a dime of it. They also 'bought her out' to retire, paid another 2 years salary into her 401k. How they do that I don't know, but it happened.

No one that I know of doing anything like that anymore. I wasn't that lucky at work except to marry her and stay married. But yes, there's lots of people here in the US living day to day and if they get sick, it's about over. Count your blessings and help the other guy if possible.
 
DogT said:
Wifie worked for the Washington Post from maybe '65-06, 40 years. To start they had 'profit sharing'. The company would just give you a portion of the profits for retirement, of course back then they were making big bucks. Sometime in the 80's? they bought back all the profit shares (Berkshire Hathaway) and flipped it to a personal 401K. She still contributed to that. They also provided decent HC. One time she got a ruptured appendix (in the 70's) and was in the hosp maybe 3 weeks and a couple months recovery. They not only paid the hospital (through their HC insurance) they paid us an extra salary every week just because she was sick (some kind of insurance benefit). Then when she went back to work, they forgave her HC leave, like she'd never taken it. Companies then were interested in their help. Now the WPO is like everyone else, nickel and dime everyone to death. Retirement benefits, non existant now. My wife not only got her 401k she also got a very substantial retirement annuity from the WPO plus her SS. They also give her a yearly stipend to cover her healthcare beneifts. It more than pays for our Fed HC benefits, although 'I' never see a dime of it. They also 'bought her out' to retire, paid another 2 years salary into her 401k. How they do that I don't know, but it happened.

No one that I know of doing anything like that anymore. I wasn't that lucky at work except to marry her and stay married. But yes, there's lots of people here in the US living day to day and if they get sick, it's about over. Count your blessings and help the other guy if possible.
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Over the years, since a bad fall from a horse at 21, I've had a mixture of ops carried out both by the NHS and private, Co health care permitting. The quality of work done the same, the Consultants the same, the only difference being the wait. I consider myself lucky but surely as our system was set up to repay a debt to the common man, there is room for improvement. Getting there!
 
Onder said:
I had no insurance at all until I was 42. My total use of it was less than 10k over all those years. I spent 3x that on my teeth.
Some people are predisposed to illness others blessed with rude health. It is a tough call when you are healthy as I am
to be willing to fund a national health scheme. You live here in UK you will soon see how it is funded. It bites. Hard.
Like so many things it depends on where you stand, whose ox is being gored.
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Our health service costs aren’t insurance though. Insurance implies risk, chance, gamble.

But, unless you’re ‘lucky’ enough to be killed outright whilst young and healthy, then sooner or later you’re gonna get ill, or old, or both.

So it’s not a case of ‘if’ you use the NHS... just when...
 
Co-pay should be part of any health system. Too many people roll up because "I paid for it" or "Its free". Where you send your money
should be up to you. Risk is no longer part of western life or so some would like to think. Risk is the very basis for investment of any kind.
The current risk-adverse mindset has brought on all sorts of unintended consequences. "Something might happen!" No kidding...it is called
LIFE! Equal opportunity doesn't mean equal out come but that too has changed.
Well, glad I am old...
 

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