Final Drive chain
- Thread starter dngrsdave
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Ludwig I'm not in your league of disciplined maintenance nor ride in such rarefied clean atmospheres but am impressed by those pristine used teeth. In past when cycles were main means of travel in poor ole England fellas kept one chain in melted graphited grease til 1st one slung it out then switched em. Same with tires moving front to back. I am a bit confused though by your views, ie: why are both sets of teeth bright silvery, ie: not darker oxidized raw steel?
I tired 520 teeth on two cycles my modern 70hp/365 lb appliance vtwin and my Cdo clunker Peel that was both lighter and distinctly faster especially above 70 where hp comes into play over torque. I could feel the extra response in both of them both on throttle and flickabilty but so slight was not worth it after I saw how quick the front sprocket teeth fanned over and rear teeth turned to humps. Even if you can get extended life by constantly rotating chains, [very good on you] the 520 chains I ran had riveted master links so extra reason for my lazy man attitude not to rotate chains but to just stick with 530 size.
I did have one horrific event d/t new 520 Obsolete-ring chain that I'd set on loose side to creep up on full tension during initial engine run in. I hit a bump that compressed suspension enough to put enough slack in the STIFF chain it kinked up to miss teeth valley and rode up on the top of the rear teeth which so shorted its tension it felt like I was kicked in the ass by the shocks bottoming out. Of course I stopped to check to see full kink remained in chain run even with some tension in it. UGHHhh. This jerked the snot out of the tranny shafts, bent unknown, so AMC bushes dissolved in a few hundred more miles and gave clutch wobble that threw & chewed up a belt 100 miles from home. I switched to X-ring on Peel after that to use up rest of rear teeth but she had over rev event soon after so only got 2000 miles more mils use w/o touchy tire spin and front lifting power so decided in order to dice with new Duci 1098's better up the engine side of her. Peel will use up the left over 520 X-ring and Al rear teeth for easy break in then sticking with 530 chain and steel teeth ring. I checked Peel's new hub construction to see she can clear 530 x chain with 130 rear tire.
That day was one of my most mixed emotional daze on early Peel still only 2/3's iso linked, rump and head, sans breast control. Sick at stomach d/t the severe damaging loads and beat down teeth, so could not give full throttle or chain slipped in grinding sound, but still so spunky I pulled into a mixed bike gathering of many dozens and yelled out HEY who's the hot shot's here I've need to find this things pecking order. Most everyone pointed to two fella's, one on a Ducati 900 something and another on Triumph Speed triple. Dcuati dude couldn't or wouldn't keep up so became a hour long dual with the Triple guy in sparing joys that proved Peel could out handle it in tights but could not keep up on climbing straights d/t chain slip above the ton. That was on his home route road to boot all new to me.
Peel only got mid 30 mpg at these rates which led to another horrific event that should of killed me on any other bike, there was only 4-ish gallon left in IS tank near end of our games and I was letting him lead d/t not knowing the route, so on one decending sharp decreasing radius I tripped Peel down to begin my pass after the turn into down hill straight but the gas slosh did not keep up with the direction change so hit mid hi side out of there Peel jerked opposite direction mid flight so instead of landing aligned with path we ended up over 50 mph aim straight for the railing, so had to snatch rear out into another low side that hi sided back in line but couldn't catch back up d/t the chain slip. We hi fived in adrenalized joy and parted ways.
Shortly after, solo returning home one of the most extreme handling challenges I had occurred but no one would believe it. Checking with locals later was told No One But NO One ever got out of the Truck Gravel Trap w/o a crane of bull dozer, not hill climbing 4wd's or dirt bikes or ATV's in bottomless pit of polished pea gravel. I was so hi from the prior flings I just shot out into it at 45 mph it thinking it would be like my Gravel paths but instead got stuck about 3 bike length into it with 50 yd before a spot seen to get back to terra firma. Took some minutes that felt like dog padding in water and thank goodness the chain didn't slip on such low-no traction, as also told very illegal and all people drunk or not got jailed and vehicles impounded. I will be back on it for sure but with video and way lower air pressure.
I tired 520 teeth on two cycles my modern 70hp/365 lb appliance vtwin and my Cdo clunker Peel that was both lighter and distinctly faster especially above 70 where hp comes into play over torque. I could feel the extra response in both of them both on throttle and flickabilty but so slight was not worth it after I saw how quick the front sprocket teeth fanned over and rear teeth turned to humps. Even if you can get extended life by constantly rotating chains, [very good on you] the 520 chains I ran had riveted master links so extra reason for my lazy man attitude not to rotate chains but to just stick with 530 size.
I did have one horrific event d/t new 520 Obsolete-ring chain that I'd set on loose side to creep up on full tension during initial engine run in. I hit a bump that compressed suspension enough to put enough slack in the STIFF chain it kinked up to miss teeth valley and rode up on the top of the rear teeth which so shorted its tension it felt like I was kicked in the ass by the shocks bottoming out. Of course I stopped to check to see full kink remained in chain run even with some tension in it. UGHHhh. This jerked the snot out of the tranny shafts, bent unknown, so AMC bushes dissolved in a few hundred more miles and gave clutch wobble that threw & chewed up a belt 100 miles from home. I switched to X-ring on Peel after that to use up rest of rear teeth but she had over rev event soon after so only got 2000 miles more mils use w/o touchy tire spin and front lifting power so decided in order to dice with new Duci 1098's better up the engine side of her. Peel will use up the left over 520 X-ring and Al rear teeth for easy break in then sticking with 530 chain and steel teeth ring. I checked Peel's new hub construction to see she can clear 530 x chain with 130 rear tire.
That day was one of my most mixed emotional daze on early Peel still only 2/3's iso linked, rump and head, sans breast control. Sick at stomach d/t the severe damaging loads and beat down teeth, so could not give full throttle or chain slipped in grinding sound, but still so spunky I pulled into a mixed bike gathering of many dozens and yelled out HEY who's the hot shot's here I've need to find this things pecking order. Most everyone pointed to two fella's, one on a Ducati 900 something and another on Triumph Speed triple. Dcuati dude couldn't or wouldn't keep up so became a hour long dual with the Triple guy in sparing joys that proved Peel could out handle it in tights but could not keep up on climbing straights d/t chain slip above the ton. That was on his home route road to boot all new to me.
Peel only got mid 30 mpg at these rates which led to another horrific event that should of killed me on any other bike, there was only 4-ish gallon left in IS tank near end of our games and I was letting him lead d/t not knowing the route, so on one decending sharp decreasing radius I tripped Peel down to begin my pass after the turn into down hill straight but the gas slosh did not keep up with the direction change so hit mid hi side out of there Peel jerked opposite direction mid flight so instead of landing aligned with path we ended up over 50 mph aim straight for the railing, so had to snatch rear out into another low side that hi sided back in line but couldn't catch back up d/t the chain slip. We hi fived in adrenalized joy and parted ways.
Shortly after, solo returning home one of the most extreme handling challenges I had occurred but no one would believe it. Checking with locals later was told No One But NO One ever got out of the Truck Gravel Trap w/o a crane of bull dozer, not hill climbing 4wd's or dirt bikes or ATV's in bottomless pit of polished pea gravel. I was so hi from the prior flings I just shot out into it at 45 mph it thinking it would be like my Gravel paths but instead got stuck about 3 bike length into it with 50 yd before a spot seen to get back to terra firma. Took some minutes that felt like dog padding in water and thank goodness the chain didn't slip on such low-no traction, as also told very illegal and all people drunk or not got jailed and vehicles impounded. I will be back on it for sure but with video and way lower air pressure.
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[quote="ludwig"I finally got tired of that routine , binned them all and installed a D.I.D 520 VX2 chain .
What withheld me most from doing this before was the extra weight of 300 gr .
A heavier chain also eats some extra power when changing direction .
In real life , I feel no difference , except in maintenance .
After 4000 km , from wich quite a few in the rain , the tension is still within specs .
I don't think I will ever go back to conventional chains ..:]
I use to replace a 530 every year due to wear. (I was lazy and didn't change it out every 300 miles to regrease the pins like ludwig).
I have gone with the DID520ZVM2 chain and have not looked back. 9000+ miles on it and it still is not loose. I also did not notice any difference in power.
When a conventional 530 chain wears and stretches it is this condition that wears out the sprockets.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
What withheld me most from doing this before was the extra weight of 300 gr .
A heavier chain also eats some extra power when changing direction .
In real life , I feel no difference , except in maintenance .
After 4000 km , from wich quite a few in the rain , the tension is still within specs .
I don't think I will ever go back to conventional chains ..:]
I use to replace a 530 every year due to wear. (I was lazy and didn't change it out every 300 miles to regrease the pins like ludwig).
I have gone with the DID520ZVM2 chain and have not looked back. 9000+ miles on it and it still is not loose. I also did not notice any difference in power.
When a conventional 530 chain wears and stretches it is this condition that wears out the sprockets.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
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Oh cool Canuk, this is exactly what Peel has on hand to use up during timid run in learning phases. The gold will match her color scheme highlights too. I'm still a bit confused in my conditions to even clean off with wd40 as may dilute the grease inside and help work nano dust crystals under seals. Peel put on a few 1000 miles on it but still looks and feel good as ever. I had to trash the jerked to snot Obsolete chain way before its time. Motorcycles are not a cheap hobby to me.
Gotta shop beyond these for best price
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/14 ... Chain.aspx
http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product ... -2611.aspx
Gotta shop beyond these for best price
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/14 ... Chain.aspx
http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product ... -2611.aspx
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Yea Steve,hobot said:
I bought three sets from Kneedragger.com when these were on clearance sale. 110 link and I got them at a great deal at around $120.00 each. I don't think I will get that deal again. I used the rivet type master link, which is the best. Here is a good how to: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=331112
If you choose the clip style then at least use a dab of silicon goop over the clip. Remember to put the clip side on the inboard of the chain or the tips of the pins will strike your pretty new chain guard and mark it up and possibly dislodge the clip. insure also the clip is in the correct direction when installed.
Regarding WD40 as a cleaner...not sure if I would use it. I use Tirox as a chain cleaner and Motul chain lube they have one for road and off road (just for you) :wink: http://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/products/639
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
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Hm, Mutol deals with sand and mud deposits, Alrighty Thomas thats pretty big claim but darn it now Ms Peel says she must have it in her cosmetic kit. The rear drum that had its teeth tips torn off was used to fit a Norvil sprocket ring but that turned out to be too big to fit in swingarm or clear shocks, so must be for some special hill climber back when. Btw after finding out how much longer my chain saw blades stayed sharp and stayed taunt by cryo tempering I'm sure going to do that to future hi dollar chains, primary and cam too as well as the sprockets. Good id to safety wire or gob sillycon over a clip link, maybe someday I'll get around to it. In mean time I pack the wires needed to fish a chain back on w/o removing the wheel and chain guard, ugh and a link in case someone else ever needs it.
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ludwig said:
Ludwig
yes probably.... but the price was right at the time.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
Come on guys we are forgetting basics here.
The original Renold was a bullet proof non O ring chain, typically built to 1/3 above DIN standard.
Most chains today, non O ring , are built to DIN, except iwis which is why I sell it.
Bikes do not break chain, they wear them and only if the 2% elongation is exceeding will they fail.
Big heavy chains on bikes especially old machines are not needed and will put stain on other parts.
I have a 1200 Bandit which spends most of its time on the back wheel and it has standard iwis non
O ring chain, by the way iwis dont amke O ring. There are many many myths that have grown up
around motorcycle chain and I will happily talk at any club meet, as I have done before, and blow
these myths out of the water. Sorry far too long and boring to put on here.
Yes I sell chain but that is not my aim, my aim to to educate people into making the right choices,
who you buy from is no important.
Andy
Age 63, biker for 50 years and in the chain business 40 years also doesnt care who he upsets.
The original Renold was a bullet proof non O ring chain, typically built to 1/3 above DIN standard.
Most chains today, non O ring , are built to DIN, except iwis which is why I sell it.
Bikes do not break chain, they wear them and only if the 2% elongation is exceeding will they fail.
Big heavy chains on bikes especially old machines are not needed and will put stain on other parts.
I have a 1200 Bandit which spends most of its time on the back wheel and it has standard iwis non
O ring chain, by the way iwis dont amke O ring. There are many many myths that have grown up
around motorcycle chain and I will happily talk at any club meet, as I have done before, and blow
these myths out of the water. Sorry far too long and boring to put on here.
Yes I sell chain but that is not my aim, my aim to to educate people into making the right choices,
who you buy from is no important.
Andy
Age 63, biker for 50 years and in the chain business 40 years also doesnt care who he upsets.
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Andy your forgetting the basics of this forum (and many other motorcycle forums) - most people here equate being more expensive = being better - :shock:
andychain said:
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andychain said:I get your point but I wont raise my prices just to satisfy forum members
haha
- lovin the iwis cam/primary duplex chains i got from you for my laverda SF - plan on one 4 for drive chain on it too
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Just in case in ya didn't know, ya can also get 525 size chain too, as my SV650 came with and I went back too on it.
http://www.google.com/#output=search&sc ... 39&bih=576
http://www.google.com/#output=search&sc ... 39&bih=576
With 525 you limit your options on choice, the bike was designed to run Renold 10B-1 and to be
honest it was a bloody good product. You can source 10B-1 from any local bearing distributor, even
connecting links. Try asking them for 525 connecting links
Andy
honest it was a bloody good product. You can source 10B-1 from any local bearing distributor, even
connecting links. Try asking them for 525 connecting links
Andy
Nater_Potater
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Based on the x-ring chain on my KTM 620 (you want to talk about a machine that's absolutely brutal to chains and sprockets?), I'm going to try the D.I.D. VX 530 chain http://www.ebay.com/itm/122762-DID-Chai ... 827wt_1154. Yes, that's the full-width 3/16"-wide chain for use on stock sprockets. Fleabay has them for around $100.
D.I.D.'s web-site http://www.didchain.com/chainSpecs.html shows a non-o-ring chain's width across the pins as 20.30mm, whereas the VX width is 24.80mm. I know the critical point is behind the primary drive at the countershaft sprocket, but figure the x-ring chain adds only 2.25mm (.089") per side, so I'm hoping there's 1/16" extra room. Actually, it looks like I'll have more of an issue with the chain guard where it covers the top of the rear sprocket. The shock isn't hitting the guard, so I may just have to "massage" it slightly.
I'm hoping to find a cycle shop that will let me slide a piece of x-ring chain through if I promise to clean the sprockets first...
D.I.D.'s web-site http://www.didchain.com/chainSpecs.html shows a non-o-ring chain's width across the pins as 20.30mm, whereas the VX width is 24.80mm. I know the critical point is behind the primary drive at the countershaft sprocket, but figure the x-ring chain adds only 2.25mm (.089") per side, so I'm hoping there's 1/16" extra room. Actually, it looks like I'll have more of an issue with the chain guard where it covers the top of the rear sprocket. The shock isn't hitting the guard, so I may just have to "massage" it slightly.
I'm hoping to find a cycle shop that will let me slide a piece of x-ring chain through if I promise to clean the sprockets first...
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I have no problem ordering 525 x-ring and sprockets for my SuVee. Suvee's 525 teeth definitely last longer than 520 teeth. I know how harsh of riding it takes to notice a lb or so difference in mass so my only interest in this subject is how long it lasts and how little attention it needs and cost. Cheap dry run bulk 530 chain or expensive X-ring in widest teeth is my choice. Summarizing reports of ~15 yr of 530 sealed chain reveals all Cdo's can fit this but on a good many the chain eats a clear path out of primary or tranny cases in a few miles before silent running and nothing but a bit of hidden cosmetic 'damage'.
Nater_Potater
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I'm off to the parts shop tomorrow morning to try that out. 'Keeping my fingers crossed...hobot said:
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