E10 fuel

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Fast Eddie said:
So, I’m miss quoting you because I said ‘all’ whereas you said ‘lots’.

You did indeed say ‘lots’, I apologise for miss quoting.

However, you also went on to make the point that there is no issue, which therefore insinuates that ALL opposing opinion must therefore be baseless.

What, are we in court here?!

I simply asked that IF you have any actual knowledge or information, please share it.

Because making the assumption that E5 was fine… therefore E10 will be, is simply not a valid argument.

Knit picking over miss quoting and accusing well respected members of having a ‘self-righteous attitude’ when they respond to you is only going to alienate
Click to expand...

Fast Eddie said:
So, I’m miss quoting you because I said ‘all’ whereas you said ‘lots’.

You did indeed say ‘lots’, I apologise for miss quoting.

However, you also went on to make the point that there is no issue, which therefore insinuates that ALL opposing opinion must therefore be baseless.

What, are we in court here?!

I simply asked that IF you have any actual knowledge or information, please share it.

Because making the assumption that E5 was fine… therefore E10 will be, is simply not a valid argument.

Knit picking over miss quoting and accusing well respected members of having a ‘self-righteous attitude’ when they respond to you is only going to alienate.
Click to expand...
Calm down old chap, you obviously don't agree with what I say which I don't have a problem with. I have, through experience, gained knowledge that being; there has been no significant corrosion of the original steel fuel tank during the last 10 years of using E5. Period. I've already pointed out it's not the ethanol that corrodes steel but the possible water content it might absorb if you might leave the fuel cap off and/or possibly live in the tropics or leave the bike in a damp garage. So twice the volume of ethanol does not necessarily mean twice the corrosion, anyway, in my case; 2 x no corrosion = no corrosion. You might wanna try sticking to the subject rather than try giving people un-asked for life lessons.
 
And going stainless to get around the water issue of ethanol is not going to help !

www.frontiersin.org

Frontiers | Influence of Ethanol on Pitting Corrosion Behavior of Stainless Steel for Bioethanol Fermentation Tanks

The role of ethanol (C2H5OH) in pitting corrosion behavior of AISI 316L austenitic stainless steel was investigated in aqueous ethanolic solution with chlori...
www.frontiersin.org www.frontiersin.org

The role of ethanol (C2H5OH) in pitting corrosion behavior of AISI 316L austenitic stainless steel was investigated in aqueous ethanolic solution with chloride. The pitting susceptibility and surface morphology of 316L in a series of ethanol-containing solutions were examined using X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy (XPS), optical microscopy with 3D stitching, immersion tests, and potentiodynamic polarization measurements. Results demonstrated that the ethanol concentration impacted little on the passive film stability while it dramatically influenced the pitting corrosion susceptibility.
 
Howie Downing said:
Calm down old chap, you obviously don't agree with what I say which I don't have a problem with. I have, through experience, gained knowledge that being; there has been no significant corrosion of the original steel fuel tank during the last 10 years of using E5. Period. I've already pointed out it's not the ethanol that corrodes steel but the possible water content it might absorb if you might leave the fuel cap off and/or possibly live in the tropics or leave the bike in a damp garage. So twice the volume of ethanol does not necessarily mean twice the corrosion, anyway, in my case; 2 x no corrosion = no corrosion. You might wanna try sticking to the subject rather than try giving people un-asked for life lessons.
Click to expand...
The only thing I disagree with is your put down of the fact there could even be a counter argument.

You have given your OPINION that there’s no issue with E10, and that ‘lots‘ of those who disagree are simply suffering from paranoia. Your anecdotal evidence however, is based on E5.

Others in this thread have given their counter opinions, and opposing anecdotal evidence, but from using E10 for years.

I’m just not currently sure why your opinion should trump theirs ?
 
kommando said:
And going stainless to get around the water issue of ethanol is not going to help !

www.frontiersin.org

Frontiers | Influence of Ethanol on Pitting Corrosion Behavior of Stainless Steel for Bioethanol Fermentation Tanks

The role of ethanol (C2H5OH) in pitting corrosion behavior of AISI 316L austenitic stainless steel was investigated in aqueous ethanolic solution with chlori...
www.frontiersin.org www.frontiersin.org

The role of ethanol (C2H5OH) in pitting corrosion behavior of AISI 316L austenitic stainless steel was investigated in aqueous ethanolic solution with chloride. The pitting susceptibility and surface morphology of 316L in a series of ethanol-containing solutions were examined using X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy (XPS), optical microscopy with 3D stitching, immersion tests, and potentiodynamic polarization measurements. Results demonstrated that the ethanol concentration impacted little on the passive film stability while it dramatically influenced the pitting corrosion susceptibility.
Click to expand...
"The presence of chlorides, such as in seawater, significantly worsens the conditions for pitting corrosion of most metals (including stainless steels, aluminum and high-alloyed materials). Chloride-induced corrosion of steel in concrete lead to a local breakdown of the protective oxide form in alkaline concrete, so that a subsequent localized corrosion attack takes place."
 
Fast Eddie said:
The only thing I disagree with is your put down of the fact there could even be a counter argument.

You have given your OPINION that there’s no issue with E10, and that ‘lots‘ of those who disagree are simply suffering from paranoia. Your anecdotal evidence however, is based on E5.

Others in this thread have given their counter opinions, and opposing anecdotal evidence, but from using E10 for years.

I’m just not currently sure why your opinion should trump theirs ?
Click to expand...
Mate, you asked for any knowledge I might have; I explained the experience from where I gained the relevant knowledge and it's from this knowledge I came to a conclusion. The fact you don't like my conclusion is not my problem. Again you mis-quote me; I said I don't expect any problems with E10 based on my experience with E5. You can make your own mind up on who's opinion you wish to believe. For the record I couldn't care less what you believe.
 
Brit on Brit fights are almost as entertaining as girl on girl :) :)

Howie Downing, when you make caustic statements you will hear about it. You did make caustic statements even if you didn't intend to do it. There are some on here that will take it "like water off a duck's back". Some will just bow out of the discussion. I've quit posting for long periods due to it. Some, sometimes, including Fast Eddie and me will fight back. IMHO, you should re-state your point without that caustic bit and disarm.

All this is a shame because you did present a data point to the discussion that might or might not be useful.

Fast Eddie, time to follow concours lead and say "I'm out", as am I.
 
Howie Downing said:
Lots of paranoia in most UK classic magazines at the moment. The USA has had E10 for quite a while and the only problem is fibre glass tanks rotting through apparently. No problems at all with E5 (steel tank, Amal premiers, ethanol proof hoses) so not expecting any drama's with E10. Personally I wouldn't wear a 50 year old fibreglass crash helmet, same goes for a fibreglass fuel tank on a motorbike. Worse case scenario; crash, tank splits, fire. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...
I've had plenty of problems with e5 fuel
My fastback tank melted and I have had fuel pipes delaminate , problems with fuel taps answel
My girlfriend has a 1977 vw bay window camper and last year the fuel pipe fell apart in the engine bay
I'm wondering if this is the cause of so many fires in these classic vehicles?
This is what worries me about E10 fuel when e5 has been bad enough
 
Howie Downing said:
Again you mis-quote me; I said I don't expect any problems with E10 based on my experience with E5.
Click to expand...

So, you said that you “don’t expect any problems with E10”.

I did not ’quote‘ you per se.

What I wrote was “you have given your OPINION that there’s no issue with E10”.

How is that so very different ?
 
I'm thinking this Downing fellow must be a troll without a home.
I would love to have an answer to all the ethanol problems with old machinery.
So far the only answer is to avoid it, which is becoming increasingly difficult.

Glen
 
Sorry bas, but this is way more fun that fighting about ethanol for the umpteenth time.

To your original question - I have no choice but to run E10 in every engine I have. On returning home, I turn off the petcock about two blocks away so the carbs are as empty as possible. I also keep my tanks full and if a bike has sat a long time, I drain some of the reserve side gas to get rid of any water in the bottom. If it's been a real long time, I drain it all and put it in my car which is better equipped to handle less than perfect gas (only when the car is near full for max dilution). On my riders, I recently changed to a reserve petcock on both sides so I can get the bottom of both sides drained.
 
worntorn said:
I'm thinking this Downing fellow must be a troll without a home.
I would love to have an answer to all the ethanol problems with old machinery.
So far the only answer is to avoid it, which is becoming increasingly difficult.

Glen
Click to expand...
I think you may be right
I'm thinking "the world's straightest troll" is back
 
marshg246 said:
Sorry bas, but this is way more fun that fighting about ethanol for the umpteenth time.

To your original question - I have no choice but to run E10 in every engine I have. On returning home, I turn off the petcock about two blocks away so the carbs are as empty as possible. I also keep my tanks full and if a bike has sat a long time, I drain some of the reserve side gas to get rid of any water in the bottom. If it's been a real long time, I drain it all and put it in my car which is better equipped to handle less than perfect gas (only when the car is near full for max dilution). On my riders, I recently changed to a reserve petcock on both sides so I can get the bottom of both sides drained.
Click to expand...
The pure gas site still shows ethanol gas available in Virginia.
Is the information on that site outdated?

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

pure-gas.org is the definitive list of ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
www.pure-gas.org www.pure-gas.org

Glen
 
worntorn said:
The pure gas site still shows ethanol gas available in Virginia.
Is the information on that site outdated?

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

pure-gas.org is the definitive list of ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
www.pure-gas.org www.pure-gas.org

Glen
Click to expand...
No, but Virginia is actually a big state with different personalities. For instance, in Southern and especially Southwestern VA you can find E0 and kerosene easily. In Northern VA, the only kerosene is in the hardware store for $10/gal! The closest station reported on pure-gas.org on in the last year is about 60 miles away. The link you provided is Vermont, not Virginia.
 
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