Clutch problem

Hobot · Jun 20, 2012

Clutch center teeth look good, show us the clutch outter teeth profiles to check for the chatter plate wear on them. They can drag on plates mating and parting some but not like you're describing. Get to check the inner case center spacer while its handy. Basically just good enough not to bind when nipped and not allow clutch basket or drive chain to rub. Still vote you just dropped your ball. If you've played those tip and tilt hand games to get two balls in two opposite end targets, similar to this Commando game but doing it through small hole with needle noise while reaching over to give rod pressure to trap ball till cable can take hold.

Matt Spencer · Jun 20, 2012

Hitting the friction plates with degreaser , baking soda , or K2R carpet cleaner , beats washing em in petrol or carbon tetrachloride. Health wise .

looks nice & clean in there .Some throw 3 of the bronze bushes in , with a drop of loctite . Then they cant shift .
Someone really annoying would fit needle rollers in there .

Robb2013 · Jun 21, 2012

Here's that shot of the teeth.

Robb2013 · Jun 21, 2012

And here's a shot of what I believe to be the threads of screw 32 sticking out the back of the gear. Does anyone concur?

Hobot · Jun 21, 2012

Looks like the lock screw is in place. There ain't but one. Not the plate teeth which look fine Robb, the inside teeth on outer rim of clutch basket. Plate teeth can become pointed with beating wear/tear too but not yet in your case.

pete.v · Jun 21, 2012

Robb2013 said:
pvisseriii said:

How far was the clutch rod sticking out of the end of the mainshaft clutch side.

You did say you had the ball bearing in place on the clutch actuating arm side didn't you?
How do the ends of the clutch rod look?

Click to expand...

Probably about an inch to an inch and a half.

Wait a minute here, did you say 1" to 1 1/2" ? You better measure the total length of the rod and tell us what you get. Just to be clear, when measured how far it was sticking out, did you have it pushed in till it stopped up against the 1/2" ball bearing and the clutch arm?

From what I believe it should stick out the mainshaft 1/4" or so. when seated (stopped up against its function).
The rod should measure 9.8" total length.

If this rod measures correctly, and I think it will, you need to pull the rest of the clutch off and all that it entails to see if to clutch locating circlip is sheared, and I think it is. You might as well pull the inner primary off also check that screw. From the picture, it looks like you pointed to something on the back of the sprocket not the front where the screw is.
Sorry, but this sounds all to familure as to the nature of your issue.

Robb2013 · Jun 21, 2012

pvisseriii said:
Robb2013 said:

pvisseriii said:

How far was the clutch rod sticking out of the end of the mainshaft clutch side.

You did say you had the ball bearing in place on the clutch actuating arm side didn't you?
How do the ends of the clutch rod look?

Click to expand...

Probably about an inch to an inch and a half.

Click to expand...

Wait a minute here, did you say 1" to 1 1/2" ? You better measure the total length of the rod and tell us what you get. Just to be clear, when measuring how far it was sticking out, did you have it pushed in till it stopped up against the 1/2" ball bearing and the clutch arm?

From what I believe it should stick out the mainshaft 1/4" or so. when seated (stopped up against its function).
The rod should measure 9.8" total length.

If this rod measures correctly, you need to pull the rest of the clutch off and all that it intails to see if to clutch locating circlip is sheared. You might as well pull the inner primary off also check that screw. From the picture, it looks like you pointed to something on the back of the sprocket not the front where the screw is.
Sorry

I was waiting for someone to catch that. Not much gets by you guys. No, hadn't understood exactly what you were asking when I said 1 1/2 inches. It sticks out about a quarter of an inch.

I don't believe the head of the screw is visible from the vantage point looking from the rear. The picture doesn't show it very clearly but you can see the threads of the screw sticking through the gear on the rear side of it. I can see a faint outline of the head if I contort my head enough. I think that's it but will look at it again and take a better picture if I can.

While I got you here, where does this thin washer go? The exploded diagram on Old Britts and the manual are unclear. I thought it went underneath the gear rachet but it just kind of flops around in there. Diameter is correct but there's a 3/8's inch gap between it and the other face.

pete.v · Jun 21, 2012

Robb2013 said:
I was waiting for someone to catch that. Not much gets by you guys. No, hadn't understood exactly what you were asking when I said 1 1/2 inches. It sticks out about a quarter of an inch.

I don't believe the head of the screw is visible from the vantage point looking from the rear. The picture doesn't show it very clearly but you can see the threads of the screw sticking through the gear on the rear side of it. I can see a faint outline of the head if I contort my head enough. I think that's it but will look at it again and take a better picture if I can.

While I got you here, where does this thin washer go? The exploded diagram on Old Britts and the manual are unclear. I thought it went underneath the gear rachet but it just kind of flops around in there. Diameter is correct but there's a 3/8's inch gap between it and the other face.

I am relieved for you as to the 1/4" rod protrusion.
I can't say as to the spacer. But I think it goes behind the Pawl Carrier Assy #10 (inner cover view) and on top of Shift Quad Return Spring #10 (outer cover view).

If i may add, pay attention to the orientation of Gearshift Pawl Spring item 4 inner cover view. One way works the other don't. I forgot which one is which.

Robb2013 · Jun 21, 2012

Yes, I see that. It's facing the wrong way now. I'll straighten it out when I put the cover on.

Hobot · Jun 21, 2012

Pawl spring crook goes to the bottom. These are sensitive items than can go out of aligment just sitting inside or handling and I've had to rebend my new ones to work right. Trick is parallel legs that just miss the pawl swinging. Measure clearance if ya like but its a non issue if it works as all you got it right.
Only washer that big goes under the gear shift pawl arm. Didn't realize you'd pulled all shift gizmos all the way off at this point. If that far in might as well renew the bushes especially the 3-three sleeve shaft and 1st gear, after reaming fit of course.

Guido · Jun 21, 2012

It's funny how between each inspection cover, primary and gear box, the deeper you look the more you find needs attention.
You really have to remove that clutch basket to inspect the circlip and the inner primary cover to inspect the drive sprocket nut and locking screw.
I would like to know how your stack height looks too as that is key to a properly operating clutch pull.
Just clean them up and see if they are flush with the top of the basket splines.
Remember, I have a dollar riding on this.

Guido · Jun 21, 2012

That big washer goes on top of the heavy spring and underneath the ratchet mechanisim.

Hobot · Jun 21, 2012

Ugh, yes a bent over sheared off clutch locator circlip could cause lack of cable tension to open plates. Piecemeal each new issue as encountered in sequence of failures at home or away, or bite bullet and concentrate the down time over a whole rebuild at once. I know about every component now that can wear or break and have to activity surpress flashing on what's happening to components just tooling around sanely.

Robb2013 · Jun 21, 2012

Guido said:
It's funny how between each inspection cover, primary and gear box, the deeper you look the more you find needs attention.
You really have to remove that clutch basket to inspect the circlip and the inner primary cover to inspect the drive sprocket nut and locking screw.
I would like to know how your stack height looks too as that is key to a properly operating clutch pull.
Just clean them up and see if they are flush with the top of the basket splines.
Remember, I have a dollar riding on this.

Although I never actually faded that bet, yes I do owe you a dollar. The problem I stated 4 pages ago was caused by the ball jumping out of position. Looking back, I remember exactly when it happened. Didn't matter because the clutch needed to come apart anyway, and now I have a nice home made clutch spring compressor. It is a juggling act trying to keep tension on that ball while you hook up the cable, all the time trying to keep the ball in the correct position. I'll take a picture of the clutch after it's in, which should be in about 15 minutes.

DogT · Jun 21, 2012

I'm not sure that ball can fall out of position. As I remember it's captured by the lockring. The problem is the operating lever falling out of position. Maybe you should go here http://www.oldbritts.com/gearbox_a.html and read about "Assembling the Gearbox", about half way down it talks about installing the clutch operating lever. I'm sure it's explained better than I can. Pictures too.

But then you had other issues too, that's apparent. It will be best in the long run, you shouldn't have to pull it apart again for a while.

BTW, it's OK to use a chisel on that lockring, just don't beat the dickens out of it.

Dave
69S

staticmoves · Jun 21, 2012

GREAT POST!

Robb2013 · Jun 21, 2012

Got it all assembled and the clutch is ridiculously hard to pull. It does appear to be releasing the clutch when I pull the lever but it's pressure a pipe fitter would strain with. Cable is lubed, no sharp bends in the routing, actuator arm seems lined up with the cable access hole. Here's a couple pics.

DogT · Jun 21, 2012

Nothing I can see wrong in the pics. Tell us about your clutch lever, 7/8" from lever screw center to the center of the cable? It still sounds like the clutch lever arm is not in the right place. Let me go take a picture of my lever arm through the inspection hole.

Dave
69S

pete.v · Jun 21, 2012

Did you measure the height of your clutch pack.
read this
http://www.oldbritts.com/ob_clutch_info.html
You are going to have to give step by step picture of what the heck you are doing.

There should be NO issue with the 1/2" ball bearing. It is 1/2" isn't it?

To attatch the clutch cable you loosen that center screw on the clutch. This give enough play to attach the cable at the arm, then the lever, then adjust the clutch to operate with the center screw turning in the bump the rod then back off 1/4 turn. Snugging the big nut sometime requires holding the center screw in position with a screw driver while tightening.

Do you have the clutch arm lined up with the hole where the cable comes through?

DogT · Jun 21, 2012

Here's what my clutch lever looks like.

Don't know if this helps.

Dave
69S

Clutch problem

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