Anti wet sumping valve, who's got one ?.

I love a good wet sump thread in the morning. It's the smell of victory.

Josh Cox said:

Acadian,

Are you telling me you had one of these fitted to your bike ?.

It broke ?.

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wet-sump-valve-recall-t5846.html

I have tested two types of anti wet sump valves: RGM valve (closed alloy body) and CNW valve (alloy with see-through part in the middle). Compared to using none the RGM type valve effected an oil pressure drop of approximately 10% throughout the rev range where the CNW valve caused oil pressure loss close to nothing, hhmmm??
When I took both valves apart I found out the RGM type valve has a reasonably tight spring to press a steel ball on its seat preventing oil from entering where the CNW valve has a synthetic ball hold by a less tight spring. No need to say which type valve I fitted to my Norton, so far I did over 15.000 satisfactory miles and yes I do have an oil pressure gauge next to the rev counter.

35 years without one. Never bothered me.

Can anything bad happen if wet sumping is ignored and the bike sits for enough time for a sinificant amount of oil to drain in the sump? Dave said his entire tank drains into the sump and he just cranks it up and goes. Is this always true or are other consequences possible? I ask because I let my RGS sit for 6 weeks and after I started it there was a huge mess underneath. This bike did not leak a drop of oil and still does not leak, so I assume the excess oil in the sump just blew out the vent without any damage. Next time, I will drain the sump. In that regard, does the Commando engines differ from BSA as I have read on this forum concerns for "blown seals."
Thanks,
Ron

Josh Cox said:

Thanks gents,

I did goop up the bolts, the crank seal is new.

From what I understand the crank seal will not stop oil from flowing across whilst parked and wet sumping, it will stop the general oil splash during riding.

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Untrue. It's an oil seal like the one on your gearbox mainshaft and should prevent any oil from leaking past whether running or not. If engine oil is migrating into the primary, something is wrong.

How about removing the primary cover and letting the bike sit on the sidestand for a week? You should be able to see where the leak is.

Josh Cox said:

Acadian,

Are you telling me you had one of these fitted to your bike ?.

It broke ?.

Click to expand...

Yup!

lillygunny said:

Can anything bad happen if wet sumping is ignored and the bike sits for enough time for a sinificant amount of oil to drain in the sump? Dave said his entire tank drains into the sump and he just cranks it up and goes. Is this always true or are other consequences possible? I ask because I let my RGS sit for 6 weeks and after I started it there was a huge mess underneath. This bike did not leak a drop of oil and still does not leak, so I assume the excess oil in the sump just blew out the vent without any damage. Next time, I will drain the sump. In that regard, does the Commando engines differ from BSA as I have read on this forum concerns for "blown seals."
Thanks,
Ron

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Just buy this and take the 5 extra mins out of your riding time to drain the oil out of the crank and pour it back into your tank.

Tried one of the clear models pictured a couple years back. Stuck shut on me at speed. Cost me a rebuild. Long story but will never go that route again.

Acadian, thanks. Do you have a link to the gadget that you recommend?
Thanks,
Ron

lillygunny said:

Acadian, thanks. Do you have a link to the gadget that you recommend?
Thanks,
Ron

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http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/067221A.htm

Dunno, but this would work, (Why yes, we actually use these things at work.)

I have the valve from CNW and it works like a charm,eaasy to install and no more draining my crankcase after a week or so of sitting.Very pleases with the product.

acadian said:

lillygunny said:

Acadian, thanks. Do you have a link to the gadget that you recommend?
Thanks,
Ron

Click to expand...

http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/067221A.htm

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Hi,

Will this work with a 75 MK3 ES?

I know my bike has a smaller drain plug which I use but I'm conscious that I could cause damage/wear to the threads.

Thanks in advance

Kevin

Josh,
Try blocking off the extra breather with the PCV you put on and just using the timed breather, or visa versa and block off the timed breather. See if that works any better. I have no problems with my sump oil going into the primary, even if the sump is full of oil, after 2 days I can see the filter in the oil tank. I put a catch bottle off the oil tank breather and I get tiny bits of oil in it, but at least it's not dripping down the air filter to the top of the gearbox, but then you say you don't have that problem. You've got the K&N filter, it should be even easier.

Take the timed breather off the oil tank and put it into a bottle, start the bike after it's been sitting for a day or so and see how much comes out. I got about 2 oz. after 1 day and it was not completely sumped. It quit coming out after about 1 minute and then just spit little bits. I find it doesn't seem to matter a whit if I leave it on compression or not.

Nelson is having trouble with his 69 pumping oil out the breather in a big way and hasn't figured it out yet.



Dave
69S

Here is one that appears to be added on to a mid 30's 350 Velocette featured in "The Classic Motorcycle" magazine. Form follows function? Why not! Does he forget to turn it on? I doubt it. Does he covet his machine more then I do mine? Maybe, but then again maybe not.

Skyguyz said:

Dunno, but this would work, (Why yes, we actually use these things at work.)

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I used a manual valve for 3 years in combination with a disclock-reminder-wire (one end on my trottle grip and the other end on the kickstarter) to be sure NOT to forget to open the manual valve. The inevitable happened, don't ask me about the circumstances but I did forget to open the valve finally. I rode for 4 miles only to find out there was zero pressure on my gauge. Immediately I opened the valve and was extremely lucky no harm was done inside my engine. From that moment I fitted an automatic anti drain valve and got rid of the manual one.

At my age, I would forget.

Dave
69S

So we've heard horror stories with the manual approach, with the automatic approach, and the no approach is just a pain in the ass and there is always the draining the sump approach also a pain.

I too have an oil pressure gauge and I like to watch it.

The conclusion may be that there is no one solution for all and it sound like to each his or hers own. I like mine (solution) and as nortonspeed spoke of, the gauge could be considered essential by many, including me.

Quite possibly the safest thing to do is nothing at all.

I wonder how many of us sick and dysfunctional Norton owners have had some sort of catastrophic event and while hiding a rye smile muttered to ones self "oh well, guess it's time for a rebuild."

I know I have had a serious issue or two that, although I was disappointed, it seem almost to easy to accept the fact that a tear down was eminent.

pv,
You know, I've heard all the horror stories from the blown head gaskets, wet sumping problems, clutch slipping and cleaning, and belt drive improvements to list a few. When I bought this Norton in 72, I just drove it, the metal oil pipes to the head cracked and started leaking a bit. Replaced that, and I never had a problem with the bike from day one, other than things wearing out, namely the S type exhaust. Now we can get into the AAU and a few leaks in the gearbox, the cranks, the oil tank, but not an issue with starting and getting home, even if the kickstart lever got loose and had to run downhill to start it.

That said, I've never had the large problems that others have had, maybe I just lucked out. But now I have a Norton (the same one) that doesn't have the AAU problems, no leaks from the gearbox (thanks to Phil), the crank (thanks to Hylomar), the oil tank and every time I go out and start it now I am so impressed that a 40 year old bike will start up first or second kick as long as you tickle the Amals right. Plus the wet sumping is just not an issue with me, I just start it and the oil goes back into the oil tank like it's supposed to, and that's what I did 40 years ago too when I didn't even know it was an issue.

The Honda CB450 I bought in 72 was nice, but just didn't have any soul, handled like a washing machine, so it was gone real quick, but then I was used to the right side BSA shifting by then.

Go figure. I'm not complaining.

Dave
69S

I hear you Dave. I have attained reliabily with my Commando. My dysfunction is that I just cannot leave well enough alone. I need one of these excellant basket cases (more like kit bikes) I have seen aquired lately.