Broken Axle

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Thank you for the responses. So I did a little surgery and the dummy axle and the axle when threaded together are in fact sloppy in the threads! WTF. No they are not Chinese, am I mismatching pieces? I like the suggestion to put in a through axle do i have to change the wheel bearings for a different size axle? One of the incidents ( of the three) was fair enough as I slammed into a cut in the road at 100 KPH

No bearings will be needed. If you use the larger axle you have to bore the spacer between the bearings. Jim
 
Jim,

You pretty well convinced me I should replace my stainless steel two piece rear axle. You mention the 350 Honda rear axle as a good choice. Are these available new? If so, do you have a part number?

I'd like to thank you for your many contributions to both the Norton and this forum.
 
Jim, I don't know a part number for the Honda axle or if they are available new anymore. We had a MC salvage yard with a large bin full of used axles. I always just brought my tape measure and calipers and went digging. Jim PS glad to put my 2 cents worth into the wealth of info that the internet has made available. It used to mean you had to sit around a campfire with a beer in one hand to learn this stuff. :|
 
It used to mean you had to sit around a campfire with a beer in one hand to learn this stuff. :|

I remember. I've been riding Nortons since 1971, motorcycles since 1959. Not so certain I wasn't better off then. Information overload now. My first Norton, a 1969 S, never skipped a beat and was completely stock most of it's life. I never knew what wasn't right with it back then. It certainly was a different world back then.

Re: Junkyards. I live in Florida and I don't prowl junkyards where there are poisonous snakes.
 
Re: Junkyards. I live in Florida and I don't prowl junkyards where there are poisonous snakes.

Makes me glad I am in Co. I have run into a couple rattlesnakes but they let you know they are there.
 
comnoz said:
Re: Junkyards. I live in Florida and I don't prowl junkyards where there are poisonous snakes.

Makes me glad I am in Co. I have run into a couple rattlesnakes but they let you know they are there.

Snakes don't like snow which is a good thing :lol:

Jean
 
Go online or magazine search for vintage Honda or even ebay to find bone yards and sellers pretty easy and plentiful. Less and less bone yards as old farts die off and much stock destroyed a couple-3 years ago when scrap metal prices spiked.

Shear forces are SS's most weakest load direction, famous for shearing cradle mount bolts regularly routinely, almost a motto now among Commando owners. So be very very afraid of two piece innate stress riser dummy axle in pretty weak metal.

Bearings can be gotten for the 17 mm axle, then IIRC Michael Tagalari had to mill drum hub for them and the bearing spacer and create a new load bearing spacer to retain speedo drive plus opening its center to match axle.

I collect broken axle events, this last two seasons read about 4-5 so far world wide. Only about 10% Commando riders are on lists, going by my interviews at big rally's, so extrapolating implies about a dozen in 6 months for couple dozen a year we don't read about. I hope the axles vendors have are good quality to just replace every couple decades, but hazard is always lurking. Its a real common risk, your call.
 
did a straight through spidle long ago so do no longer know exactly how but remember a LAVERDA spindle did the job without much drilling or filing . Just had to make up thin bushes for the bearings as i could not find bearings with metric inner and imperial outer
 
Just updating, 2 days ago broke my 2nd dumbass axle on second Combat just making lazy unloaded circles in a parking lot. Its lurking you all beware and might pack a rescue kit.
Broken Axle


Broken Axle


Broken Axle


Broken Axle
 
It's not that difficult to replace the Norton 2-piece axle with a one-piece. I did it several years ago, replacing it with the axle from a Honda CB 350 (which, surprisingly, has a much beefier axle than a Commando). This was originally an e-mail to Steve Shiver (hobot) who said he was posting it on a Norton forum, so if this is the forum he was talking about, it should already be here someplace. This has also been discussed extensively on the Internet group for the International Norton Owners Association (INOALIST@yahoogroups.com) which some people here may also belong to.


From: "Taglieri, Michael"
To: <hobot@madisoncounty.net>
Cc: <miket_nyc@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: One Piece Commando axle modification
Date: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 7:16 PM

Here is basically how it's done. You need is a metal-turning lathe with a 3-jaw chuck but it doesn't have to be a particularly good one. (A high-precision drill press would also work if you know how to use it, but centering the parts on the table would be a real pain). You basically put each part in the 3-jaw chuck and drill it out to 17mm. On a small lathe like my 7x10 I'm not actually sure I ever DID a detailed post, but just a general e-mail. The only way to fully explain it would be a full-fledged article illustrated with pictures. I'd like to do one but I have to find the time, and also find another Commando with its rear end apart for the "before" pictures.minilathe, this requires step-drilling (starting with a small drill and gradually increasing the size) because 17mm is a big-ass drill). On some parts, the enlargement is hardly noticeable, and on others (like the dummy axle) most of the part gets taken away, and it turns it into a spacer. You don't have to drill the actual bearings, because Norton used 17mm bearings in the stock rear axle and sleeved them down to the axle size.

My rear axle is from a Honda CB 350, but Ben English said many bikes of that era used 17mm rear axles. After you get the axle, you file the slots in the swingarm larger with a large file. This is easier than it sounds, because you make a test-bar on the lathe -- a rod a few inches long with steps in it, starting smaller than 17mm and working up to it. This is not high-precision work, because you WANT a little play so the axle will go in easier. Then you have to make spacers for both ends of the axle that the adjusting screws can ride against. Again, this is an easy job with a metal-turning lathe.

The only part of the job that's not easy is modifying the speedo drive. The hole in the middle of the steel "top hat" spacer in the stock speedo drive is 9/16" to fit the stock axle, and the spacer then fits into a larger hole on the speedo drive. You can't drill out the spacer to 17mm because there isn't enough of it. Instead, you have to make a bigger one that's 17mm on the inside, then bore the body of the speedo drive to accept its outside diameter (which can be anything you want, within reason). This is the trickiest part of the job, but it would still be easy for a hobby machinist with a lathe because only the 17mm inside hole is a critical size, and that only has to be drilled 17mm, not bored or reamed.
 
Here's how easy it happens

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO7ukK-OeaI[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87kW5zcbkFs[/video]
 
hobot:

I DON'T THINK the failure of that axle happened instantaneously. I think it happened as a result of it's lifetime of accummulated stresses, with the "straw that broke the camel's back" happening as it was being videotaped.

In other words, I'm guessing that if we lined up 20 Commandos in a giant empty WalMart parking lot, and everyone started doing steep figure-8s, NONE of the axles would snap.

Easy enough to prove me wrong...
 
I DON'T THINK the failure of that axle happened instantaneously. I think it happened as a result of it's lifetime of accummulated stresses, with the "straw that broke the camel's back" happening as it was being videotaped.

In other words, I'm guessing that if we lined up 20 Commandos in a giant empty WalMart parking lot, and everyone started doing steep figure-8s, NONE of the axles would snap.

Easy enough to prove me wrong...

You are both entirely correct and in error at same time. Dumbass axles are exactly like radioactive fissionable material with a known half life now, but is totally unpredictable as too which axle will break and when, just certain that over some interval some of them will split. You can speed up radioactive fission half life by bombarding with other neutrons or protons or pack material so densely you increase the chances of run away chain reaction. Same as dumb axle, use it longer or harder and its chances to fission go up too. My point/message being that anyone with less remembering of past reports and their own breakages, is still thinking - nay merely feeling emotional opinion - will not believe me till they get up to speed on same data base scope or experience as me and others.

Look at my rescue kit and think how you might apply it for you and others safety as permanent install. I had Trixie totally under my thumb by the time I did the 1st blip up hi side test and was setting up to actually catch aire on the next few - but lucked out to straighten up some just before I got nuked right down. Stay tuned to see why no one believes my handling tales but me and spanked sports riders.
 
hobot,

I believe a lot may have to do with overtightening the axle, putting excess strain EXACTLY at the point where you've broke yours.

"Norton Commando: a collection of fine lines." (you may quote me on that one)

hee hee noodle on that one for a while...
 
grandpaul said:
hobot,

I believe a lot may have to do with overtightening the axle, putting excess strain EXACTLY at the point where you've broke yours.

"Norton Commando: a collection of fine lines." (you may quote me on that one)

hee hee noodle on that one for a while...
There might be somethig to be said for the tightening sequence. Brake/drive side first then speedo side. This may or may not make a differance but it seems the "safe" procedure to me.
 
Right on chaps, rationalize all ya like to keep your pure emotional reactions in comfort zone but you are not really attacking me with your conclusions but many racers and riders long before I got into dumb axle Commandos. IF it makes ya feel better to assume my decade+ experience now is not up to snuff for axles, then so be it and report back how it makes you feel if your totally maintained and proper nipped up axle splits like an atom w/o warning. That's if you live through it not thrown down in heavy traffic to be run over or off the edge of bluff railings...
 
Hi, When I did a one piece axle for my bike , I used the Honda350/450 axle.
It had to be cut down & re threaded like Mike says.
It is very hard steel compared to the Norton axle. You will not be able to thread it with a die nut. I recommend you send it out to a good machine shop who can do nice threads on a lathe , also they can do the spacers. I think it was threaded for a 5/8 in Fine thread Nut, Nylock drilled for safety wire (it could be 3/4" ).
Openning the slot in the swing arm is a nothing job (5 min, with a file).
I also recommend using the stronger honda axle adjusters if you have the Norton thin sheet metal ones. They fit right in. except if you have a rear disc brake the caliper bracket needs to be shaved a little extra in way of the adjuster.

If you put the axle in from the left side ,you can still remove the wheel with out taking the sprocket carrier apart. My bike, a 74 has a 75 disc rear & Old britts sprocket carrier, so its a little different from most otherwise I would give you the spacer diminsions.
Maybe john B should make them up to go along with his great fork mods
Bruce MacGregor
 
Bruce MacGregor said:
Hi, When I did a one piece axle for my bike , I used the Honda350/450 axle. It had to be cut down & re threaded like Mike says...If you put the axle in from the left side ,you can still remove the wheel with out taking the sprocket carrier apart. My bike, a 74 has a 75 disc rear & Old britts sprocket carrier, so its a little different from most otherwise I would give you the spacer diminsions.

Sounds like what I did with my Dreer monoshock prototype bike. Left side insertion just seemed logical to me. Holt/CAT store had the bolts on the shelf.
 
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