Norman White PR starting problems

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PM999S said:
..........One odd thing is that when I try opening the throttle, within a couple of engine cycles the roller can't turn the engine and jams up...
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This isn't actually odd at all.....

By opening the throttle when the engine is being turned over you are allowing more air in....effectively more air has to be compressed to turn over.

I would be suspecting the batteries you are using are past their best for cranking and not fully charged, and you are using the wrong gear

Get your batteries sorted, spin it over without plugs in to clear the excess fuel, have at least two sets of NEW plugs to hand.

Put in new plugs, if it still doesn't start immediately, remove, spin again to blow out excess fuel, fit new plugs and use that easy start.....with new, dry plugs...

Personally I would strip and clean the carbs first!

Oh, and you did take the bath plugs out of the inlet trumpets didn't you? :oops:
 
concours said:
Doing a 30 second test before disassembling carburetors confirms viability of the compression and ignition. Then after it is heard running two seconds, a carb D&C is warranted. By choosing to do the carbs first, if it still doesn't start, we don't know if the person cleaning the carbs did a thorough, correct job, or created an additional problem. The sequence of events is crucial to a fast, smooth troubleshooting process.
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I'm good with my suggestion regardless of sequence, and way past needing a lesson in making a motor run. Save that wisdom for the guy asking for help. lol

Besides I was darn sure he was past that compression step when he almost broke his ankle, and started using the roller starter.

I mentioned ignition on page one somewhere too. Probably got lost in translation, and I doubt it was actually checked

Was the "are the plugs wet?" question ever answered?
 
What is the condition of the gasoline? If it's been sitting since "won the auction this summer" could be as easy as draining the old gas and replacing with fresh.
Plugs may be wet, but wet with bad fuel.
Put in fresh gas, new plugs and a fully charged battery.
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Was the "are the plugs wet?" question ever answered?

See post #21 :)
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Thanks

Soaked. Shee...it!!

I'd be surprised as well that it did not start. I've got nothing but guesses though, which I can understand are annoying. Need hands on myself. Maybe the secret to success with this bike is defined in Norman White's book. That has probably been mentioned as well by now. ;)

I'll go to my room without pudding for that.
 
gnolan said:
What is the condition of the gasoline? If it's been sitting since "won the auction this summer" could be as easy as draining the old gas and replacing with fresh.
Plugs may be wet, but wet with bad fuel.
Put in fresh gas, new plugs and a fully charged battery.
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The fuel tank was completely drained for transportation from the auction house so the fuel I'm using is brand new Aral Ultimate 102 octane. Thanks for all the advice and I will follow the steps suggested and, hopefully, report back when I've found out what's wrong.
 
NEW plugs, new or at least properly checked battery, Easy Start, and more, ALL suggested within the first 4 posts of this thread …
 
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Based on the described symptoms/troubleshooting, it's an ignition issue. If it has fresh gas and gas has been dribbled into the cylinder, at minimum it would fire/run for a second or two. But since it's not doing that and the plugs are sparking when sitting on the cylinder head, it seems that the spark must be occurring at the wrong time.

HOWEVER... Is the spark a healthy blue/white or a red/yellow? If not blue/white, then the EI is not delivering sufficient voltage to the plugs. Of course that could be caused by insufficient voltage to the EI (weak batt, bad/corroded connections), a bad EI, highly resistant secondary cables, bad ground to the engine, etc.

As mentioned earlier, some EI's are very sensitive to low voltage as far as timing so that MIGHT be an issue but it was mentioned that the batt was fully charged. So ( as suggested earlier) check the static timing to ensure it is in the ballpark.

Think how much easier all this will be when we all have electric vehicles! :rolleyes:
 
Think it was the original battery, found with low/no charge and recharged. They don't like that. Worth trying a different known healthy battery. Also check static timing.
 
Mart UK said:
Think it was the original battery, found with low/no charge and recharged. They don't like that. Worth trying a different known healthy battery. Also check static timing.
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Having had no joy with a healthy battery from my Roadster (works perfectly with Boyer ignition) or with using spray starter I'm firmly moving towards a timing issue. That said, I'm struggling to find fitting instructions online for the Lucas AB15 Hall Effect ignition before starting to fiddle around with the static timing. Anyone knows where I can source this?
 
PM999S said:
I was the fortunate winner of an auction in summer to buy a Norman White prepared production racer, albeit right in the middle of a double home move so it is only recently I've started looking at getting it started. Being a PR it has a kickstart but, after many attempts, a couple of kickbacks nearly broke my ankle so I invested in a paddock roller starter which I'll need anyway when my longed for return to the track happens next year.
Sadly, even that doesn't illicit anything other than the odd cough. I'd been told it had been started earlier in the year and have swapped spark plugs with my Roadster and still no joy.
I suspect a fueling issue and Norman told me it is set to run an Avgas 50/50 mix but that 100 octane or above should be fine and so I'm using 102 octane from my local Arval garage. I suspect I'm going to have to strip the Amal Mk11s it has fitted. I've worked on Mk1s before so is there anything special I should be looking for with the Mk11s?
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So you never saw the bike run, but the seller said it ran? Did you see a video?
Timing doesn't move, and carbs don't lose adjustment sitting. (Passages can clog).
 
concours said:
So you never saw the bike run, but the seller said it ran? Did you see a video?
Timing doesn't move, and carbs don't lose adjustment sitting. (Passages can clog).
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The auction house, a very well know and reputable company, said the previous owner had it running in March shortly after Norman had finished the build, so, no, I had to take it in good faith that it had been running. I have since been in brief communication with the previous owner who gave me a short list of its specs but has thrown away most of the documentation in some disgust after spending too much money on it!
 
PM999S said:
The auction house, a very well know and reputable company, said the previous owner had it running in March shortly after Norman had finished the build, so, no, I had to take it in good faith that it had been running. I have since been in brief communication with the previous owner who gave me a short list of its specs but has thrown away most of the documentation in some disgust after spending too much money on it!
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Time to begin at square one. Compression test, ( I know, I know, almost broke the ankle), static timing setup, carbs stripped, cleaned, INSPECTED & passage flows VERIFIED.
Trust nothing except what you can prove to yourself regarding setup.
Also, rig an oil pressure gage to confirm the oiling system is properly setup.
 
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concours said:
Time to begin at square one. Compression test, ( I know, I know, almost broke the ankle), static timing setup, carbs stripped, cleaned, INSPECTED & passage flows VERIFIED.
Trust nothing except what you can prove to yourself regarding setup.
Also, rig an oil pressure gage to confirm the oiling system is properly setup.
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Would the static timing be like the Boyer set at 31 degrees TDC?
 
Maybe speak to Norman first as he will know if he ever tested the engine running or not, if the owner gave up after spending £'s then its possible it has never run.
 
storm42 said:
Might be a daft suggestion but has anything been pushed down the exhausts?
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Just put a yard's worth of a pole down both and they appear completely clear at least until the first bend in the pipes..
 
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