Norman White PR starting problems

PM999S said:

Thanks for that and great to have as a reference, just have to invest in a timing disc now! That said, I've just spoken to Norman and he says its highly unlikely to have moved so a part strip of the carb bowls and jet blocks to check for gunk build up is his first suggestion.

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maylar said:

What are we looking at here? Is this a custom made machine? Got more pics?

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Fast Eddie said:

Looks like you have a crank triggered ign?

That is definitely not standard. But Steve Maney et all all did this.

Basically it looks like you have quite a special machine. It also seems that perhaps you don’t fully realise what you’ve got.

I would consider an investment in Normans time (If he’s willing) to take the bike to him, let him give it a once over, and talk you through the bike, what’s special / different and what you need to know.

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PM999S said:

Yes I'm told it is a special build along the lines of Norman's Factory Proddy racers of the '70s. All I know from the previous owner, who admits to spending far too much money on it, is "it has a 750 cylinder head flowed by Norman, race high compression pistons, a Nourish short stroke crank, PW3 race cam all in a set of Steve Maney crank cases. The gearbox is a modern five speeder supplied by Mick Hemmings. The bike is fitted with 34mm Amal smoothbore carbs and big bore factory exhaust pipes and NWR silencers. Norman built the cycle parts based on a 1971 road frame, modified to factory spec with cotter pin reinforcement and raised and offset engine mounts. The rear hub was machined to take Manx rear sprockets. The front forks have new stanchions, and are fitted with Norman's sliders to suit his twin disk set up. I decided on 18 inch rims to give a wider choice of race rubber." I now live in Germany so it would be a bit of a trek to take it back to Norman to find out more...

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Fast Eddie said:

Ahh, yes, trailering the bike from Germany to Andover and back would be a drag!

That is one very high spec and special motorcycle you got there though. A lot of stuff is way outside of the normal manuals etc.

SteveA is running a similar spec motor, so his advice should be helpful.

There are a few guys on here running crank mounted ignitions, but as far as I can recall, none are running Lucas.

All I’d advise is, take your time! Try and avoid (what might at times be a strong ) temptation to remove parts to revert to standard. EVERYTHING on that bike is there for a reason and is well proven and based on decades of top level experience (ie Norman‘s).

Alternatively… the bike looks awful, is never gonna run right, and will drive you insane… I’ll rescue you and give you £10k to take it off your hands…

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PM999S said:

but no-one was as surprised as me when I won the auction for a lot less than that!

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THIEL MOTORSPORT in Heilbronn would be worth a try.​

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www.thiel-motorsport.de

PM999S said:

Thanks for the advice and now I know it's a set-up I've no knowledge of, I will ask Norman how I can adjust the timing after I've stripped and cleaned the carb bowls, jets and needles which he said should be the first port of call. And thanks for the offer on the bike but no-one was as surprised as me when I won the auction for a lot less than that! (PS I forgot to mention Maney alloy barrels to),

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oldmikew said:

you canbe quite sure that whoever went to such trouble building the bike had it running. Coming back to an earlier post of Fast Eddie... its probably something quite simple that is stoppingit firing up.. Maybe not the mk2 carbs but crossed plug leads.. on standard set up the ei is rotating at half cranshaft speed so it fires twice per 360 d rotation. there is a waste spark and it does not matter which lead goes to which plug... On an end of cranksetup it will only fire once per 360and it is of crucial importance which lead goes to whhich plug just as it did onthe old lucas twin magnetos. Just swap the leads over and spin it up on the rollers and i am betting it willfire up

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oldmikew said:

it could depending on the setup fire once every 360 degrees but be 180 out of phase... Any way easyenough to swp the leads over...

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Fast Eddie said:

Good point. If it uses a stock alternator rotor it could have been set to the marker that is 180 degrees from the TDC marker. I’ve done that before !

Thats why it’s good practice to paint the TDC marker to make it very clear. Or remove the other one altogether.

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PM999S said:

FYI I've just had an email from Norman giving a bit more of en explanation although messig with this timing set up seems a bit out of my league: "The ignition is triggered directly from the drive side crankshaft. The gapped trigger forms the outside flange of the engine pulley. It passes through the pick up module which is mounted on the adjustable plate mounted on the outside of the cover. Dismantling and reassembling the cover entails some tricky work. Again I do not think the timing could have moved."

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PM999S said:

FYI I've just had an email from Norman giving a bit more of en explanation although messig with this timing set up seems a bit out of my league: "The ignition is triggered directly from the drive side crankshaft. The gapped trigger forms the outside flange of the engine pulley. It passes through the pick up module which is mounted on the adjustable plate mounted on the outside of the cover. Dismantling and reassembling the cover entails some tricky work. Again I do not think the timing could have moved."

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Fast Eddie said:

Good point. If it uses a stock alternator rotor it could have been set to the marker that is 180 degrees from the TDC marker. I’ve done that before !

Thats why it’s good practice to paint the TDC marker to make it very clear. Or remove the other one altogether.

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