Why Norton? Why Commando?

Brooking 850 · Jan 2, 2012

I was given a ride on a triumph in the early 60's, then had a love affair with Nortons since day on in the 70's. local bike shope kept 2 x red fastbacks on display for 2 weeks for us all to oggle at, including the new owners!!!
Mates all had different British brands, but they always seemed to spend more time maintaining them to keep them running, Nortons did it for me, from Dommies to Commandos and now I own 2 Commandos. Have owned many Jap bikes of all types, big roadies to off roaders and trials bikes, happy with the Nortons and as other say, such a thrill to ride.
Regards mike

Brithit · Jan 2, 2012

concours said:
I didn't remember seeing that.. but got a good belly laugh when it was listed in Cycle World's "Top 10 Fizzles of All Time"

I think that bike really shocked people in that there was a lot of hype to begin with, it led a short life, and was totally scrapped in favor of the Yamaha triple in such a hurry. Prior to that, the Japanese seemed invincible to a lot of the buying public. I remember a "boycott Yamaha" effort by people who had been burned by the big twin. The old XS 650s were pretty reliable, and the fizzle of the new model was not what people expected from Japan, inc. Interesting account of the failures a few posts up. Hadn't heard a post mortem in that detail before.

platinumsmith · Jan 2, 2012

My first bike was a new 1967 Triumph 650, Mint green over Alaskan white TR6C Scrambler. She still holds court in a stable of 5. She (Miss April) put up with my lack of respect until one day about 40 years ago she took all my front teeth. Now she maintains my strict attention & undying respect. But when I'm in the mood for a younger gal, she forgives my transgressions toward a cheap '74 Commando. I try not to compare the two, lest I lose more teeth.

Matt Spencer · Jan 3, 2012

WHY Not ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45UYhn-YVFc

Half the decorations wernt there then . Just a dotted line down the middle .
Open road sign at end of straight 10 yds before bridge , straight , hard right of it @ 60 up to 70 and left .
The rest there're all 60 or 70 if dry & clear . then . Chip seal .Drop and entry and ru the radius , pick up on
start of straights , and nail or brake , as reqd .

This is the last of the city behind you as you leave all the loopies in their boxes.

rvich · Jan 3, 2012

splatt said:
rvich said:

. I also have a Yamaha outboard. So it isn't like I am blind to Japanese engineering.

How far out to sea would you go with a British out board ?

Ever heard of a Seagull Outboard? They were once the choice for auxilary power for blue water cruisers because they were so dependable and easy to maintain.

Yes I have, and I still remember the times with dad rowing back to shore,or when it would die going through the breakers :shock:

Click to expand...

ROFLMAO :lol:

Ah, the good ole days when men were men and outboards were anchors.

Russ

Matt Spencer · Jan 3, 2012

Whatever the Commando racer lacked in getting off the line it more than made up for in stopping .What a diferance the front disc makes over the standard paltry drum . If the Standard Commando were to come
equipped with this stopping device , the machine would be the best available touring motorcycle in the areas of brakes , handling and acceleration. Bar none . You just cant beat it with the existing machineary available today . ( Cycle , Jan. 1971 ).

When you have a garage full of test machines , among them some of the newest , most sophisticated multis with electric starters and five speed transmissions , and one machine proves popular enough with the staff
to find them sneaking away early to be sure they get to it first , that machine demands some close scrutiny . So it was with the Norton Interstate .( Motorcyclist , sept. 1972 )

The Interstate is a true all-rounder. You can play the stoplight grand prix game or set off on a 1000-mile trip with the same assurance that the machine is up to the job . There are more exotic machines , there are less expensive machines , but we doubt that there is a better machine made anywhere .( ditto )

The ' high Road '

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAu0ZDKJqDs

Old Oak adjacent bitumen was unfenced . Dead stop for some in the past .
------------------------------------------------
Hearts off Oak .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F0hWo4h ... creen&NR=1

Pillion through here at three times the average for a loopie , will have youre full & undevided attention . Ancient Triumphs heritage evidant , U S Oval track Race Ancestory . :shock: 4th generation local ' pilot ' :|
An average , timed of better than 90 mph is obviously easily within a H2s grasp with the 5 speed , the extra power of the Z1 should get the average past 100 mph ?
Its not allways wet , that keeps the dust down . Bare clay patches like ice , wet . Not so in the dry . Drops off then away into the gulleys at the sides in places .

Matt Spencer · Jan 3, 2012

But , heres the Real Professionals .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_xG2lCO ... =endscreen

Big_Jim59 · Jan 3, 2012

I have several reasons for my Norton devotion. The first is we understand each other. I had worked as a mechanic and had put several complete Commandos back together after misguided owners had done "the hard part" and dismantled their bikes. The guy I purchased the Beast from threw back a tarp covering my future pride and joy and he exclaimed "I'll bet you don't know what that is." I said "friend, not only do I know that that is I know every piece on it!" So much for introductions. Having had the bike totally apart several times I can say we really understand each other.

The second thing I love about my Norton is the feel. There is nothing like the clutch on the Beast. Let it out a little and you are riding and I mean right now! I went on a shop sponsored ride and was convinced to try a modern bike. I parked my Commando for the duration of the ride and took a Honda 919 the shop had take on trade. I thought that when I got back and switch rides again I would feel the loss of power. Nothing was further from the truth. Because the 919 made its power in the higher rev ranges i was more that happy with the way my Norton behaved on the road back. In fact the Honda felt buzzy and put my hands to sleep where the Norton was more comfortable with less vibration at speed.

Lastly I like the people. I love meeting people and the Beast is the biggest conversation starter in the world. It is at home and makes friends in a pack of young sport bike guys (this is your grandfathers sport bike after all) and does the same in a group of Harley riders. Every time I get gas someone stops with a smile and says "I had one of those." Or you get stories of Norton exploits from bygone days. My favorite was a kids who stopped and asked "can I look at your Norton. I've only seen them in books!" I guess for some the Norton is like the mythical Unicorn. Without the Norton I would be invisible.

Bernhard · Jan 5, 2012

Matt Spencer said:
Whatever the Commando racer lacked in getting off the line it more than made up for in stopping .What a diferance the front disc makes over the standard paltry drum . If the Standard Commando were to come
equipped with this stopping device , the machine would be the best available touring motorcycle in the areas of brakes , handling and acceleration. Bar none . You just cant beat it with the existing machineary available today . ( Cycle , Jan. 1971 ).

There is nothing wrong with the 2ls front brake provided it is given the necessary tweaks and correctly set up.
There is a very cheap way of doing this and the more expensive way of having it done with oversize green linings fitted and when mounted on the brake plate the oversize shoes are skimmed down on a lathe to fit the drum diameter with two .010 thou. shims inserted.
I had a 2ls done this way and it would lock the front wheel up when linings were cold, so I had to ride the bike with my brain aware of this.
I also raced this bike and very few riders with disc brakes out braked me in to corners.

komet · Jan 6, 2012

Bernhard, what's the cheap way?

Graeme

Hobot · Jan 6, 2012

I've found out the hard way that drum brake good as they can be vary in their braking effort enough to either over do ya right down or fade away off safe path. If aware of this with plenty of practice then its not such a let down surprise.

DogT · Jan 6, 2012

Graeme,

post1656.html?hilit=%20#p1656

I did it even simpler, I did it all myself, used 'tacky glue' from the fabric store, water soluble, I just tightened up the adjuster at the wheel while turning, took me about 2 hours and 3 tries. Much better brake. I now have the RGM high friction to put on, so I have to do it again. I don't know about the stiffening plate, I'm not using one. But the TLS is now an acceptable brake, but it does fade with heat. When I started I had about 1" on one pad contacting and when I got done, I had full contact with both pads. Make sure it's set up right with the adjustable rod too.

Dave
69S

Matt Spencer · Jan 6, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk2irKVQB4I later long nose could get 220 .a bit dodgey over 200 .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP49X7JbegI Not the real ones , now . alas . cant afford to be choosey . I guess .

Well , thetre from the same general part of the planet . 1975 They had the Cosworth & Roatary near fruition . Blocked Channels scupperd the effort , at the time .

Bernhard · Jan 7, 2012

hobot said:
I've found out the hard way that drum brake good as they can be vary in their braking effort enough to either over do ya right down or fade away off safe path. If aware of this with plenty of practice then its not such a let down surprise.

Please note; the Green 'Racing linings' that where made by Ferodo brakes where more 'fade free’ than standard brown linings.
Strictly speaking they were not racing linings as some people suggest, they were found to be the best set of linings to use in the front when they carried out tests at Mallory Park in the 1950s/60s .........Note-- Don’t use these in the rear!!!!!!!
Where do they come from?
They were originally designed as hard wearing shoes for the Black Cabs and Milk floats :!: :!:

Bernhard · Jan 7, 2012

komet said:
Bernhard, what's the cheap way?

Graeme

I have found that most new brake shoes fall far short of perfection as when assembled there is usually a wide gap between the shoes and the drum, I have to take up a considerable amount of the brake adjusters before I get contact, unless you have oversize shoes fitted, which are then skimmed down to fit the drum.

My method merely involved getting the shoes closer to the drum by using metal spaces slightly less the width of the flats that are bent over in both corners on the flat part of the brake shoes which kisses the pivot flats of the 2ls drum. If you have a single LS you need to make a pair, if 2ls you need to make 4 of them.
Note; don’t use any metal more than ½ the thickness of the linings or the metal spaces will hit he drum!!
Aim to get he shoes within about .020 or more.
If you have a lathe you can skim the linings mounted on the brake plate, by first fitting a .020 spacer under each of the flats, then turning down tho the exact diameter of the brake drum….. then remove tall the .020 spacers.
If you don’t have a lathe don’t worry, you will have a much better brake when you pull the lever,as even more of the shoe will be in contact with the drum when the brake beds in.
Also, don’t forget to file a shallow 30 angle on the leading edges of the shoe linings or the brake will grab.

If the drum is so worn that the metal spaces cannot compensate, you will have to weld even more flat metal onto all the spaces to compensate.
At one time I could buy these from my local motorcycle emporium.

NOTE!!!
Disclaimer;
Asbestos Brake dust is very harmful when machined and I will not be held responsible for any brake shoe work carried out, so always wear a dust mask!

concours · Jan 11, 2012

Matt Spencer said:
THAT's the Worlds First self imolateing motorcycle ! :shock: They wernt the full quid raceing . Read On . . .

Id hoped to get one , CHEAP . And use a disc grinder to CUT the Exhaust Balance off the front of the head .

The Area BETWEEN the EXHAUSTS where it Requires Maximum Cooling . So, they put a conductive alloy tunnel
right through the middle . So the more ya go the more it doesnt cool .In fact the Exhaust Gasses do the opposite . :cry:

Balance pipes had become fasionable , late 60s . Silenceing AND Low Speed tourque Increase .
The Theory was " The Closer to the Head , the More the Low End Tourque Increase " sorta like a variable length
tuned tuned length exhaust system ( Yea , they do those And Variable intakes , and bells and whistles these days )

So , General Tojo Instructs the poor draftsman that he wants it in the head , for maximum talk increase ? ? 8)
The Draftsmans got no option but Hari Kari , and the workers will be in the dungeons if they dont do what theyre told .

But NOT TO WORRY . I actually saw one in a Museum , that hadnt Blown Up . :lol: ,
The bleedy thing BOLTS ON ( put that disc grider away ) All you have to do , Is , UNBOLT IT
( The Stupid bit on the front beteen the pipes bingthat not only shouldnt be there . . . Youve Got FIFE Minutes !

Post a photo , The pipesll probly plug straight through , and youll have the worlds first Yamaha ( XT750 ) that Goes !

Not Only That , The Valve Springs Fit a Norton Commando , and youve got TWO sets in there , with all those valves .
All is not lost , Decent Shocks , take the Baffles out , Stiff oil in the forks , decent tyres , and . . . :|

Sorry . :wink:

Agreed the crossover was a bad design. The mufflers NEVER had baffles in them, just 1-1/4" straight through with perforated tubing. The rear shocks are KYB, work fine, the forks have 15w fork oil now. The Avon's are as good as the rest of the chassis.

Matt Spencer · Jan 11, 2012

Always thought they looked to be solidly built , so worth a bit of effort to sort out .

The Brother the Aircraft Mechanic , when doing anything onthe Rover , took a ' Time Concious ' approach .
Heat shields / suppresion panels , on the scrap pile , Radiator , why put 16 bolts back when theres one in each corner,
Four will Do ! Etc .Utiliseing this ' advanced ' approach could pay dividends .

The V4 to toss the balance shaft ( the V6 has none ) loctiteing the bearing shells rotated to block the oilways , and
welded / plug to gear drive ' Oil Spray ' hole on cam retainer ( V 6 has one hole , V 4 two , timing GEAR lube ) got
the thing boogying .The decrease in flywheel effect perfect , with a nice lopey rythym to it . Hardly ' Vibration ' .

Id think theres enough mass and dampening in there to get fairly smooth running , sans all the unnessesary components.
Sleeves through to keep gas in pipes , NOT the head front ok , but idealy the front of the head exposed to the cooling airstream by removeing the center ' Duct ' . and it could well be all it was intended to be , when it was designed .

Comments ? " Tried to Hard " or got a bit to clever for themselves .
Vibration is relative . Reciprocateing mass Vs Engine Mass gives basic dampening ratio . Harmonics of the mounts &
tubes finishes the equation . Unruley desperados prefer the go to the civilised secondary buzzing of sophistication .

May well be ' less is more ' as far as tearing up the countryside and gong places , if you ' bite the bullet ' on that . :mrgreen:

concours · Feb 3, 2012

Matt Spencer said:
Always thought they looked to be solidly built , so worth a bit of effort to sort out .

The Brother the Aircraft Mechanic , when doing anything onthe Rover , took a ' Time Concious ' approach .
Heat shields / suppresion panels , on the scrap pile , Radiator , why put 16 bolts back when theres one in each corner,
Four will Do ! Etc .Utiliseing this ' advanced ' approach could pay dividends .

The V4 to toss the balance shaft ( the V6 has none ) loctiteing the bearing shells rotated to block the oilways , and
welded / plug to gear drive ' Oil Spray ' hole on cam retainer ( V 6 has one hole , V 4 two , timing GEAR lube ) got
the thing boogying .The decrease in flywheel effect perfect , with a nice lopey rythym to it . Hardly ' Vibration ' .

Id think theres enough mass and dampening in there to get fairly smooth running , sans all the unnessesary components.
Sleeves through to keep gas in pipes , NOT the head front ok , but idealy the front of the head exposed to the cooling airstream by removeing the center ' Duct ' . and it could well be all it was intended to be , when it was designed .

Comments ? " Tried to Hard " or got a bit to clever for themselves .
Vibration is relative . Reciprocateing mass Vs Engine Mass gives basic dampening ratio . Harmonics of the mounts &
tubes finishes the equation . Unruley desperados prefer the go to the civilised secondary buzzing of sophistication .

May well be ' less is more ' as far as tearing up the countryside and gong places , if you ' bite the bullet ' on that . :mrgreen:

These boys tried it with the balance shaft removed... it didn't work so well: http://www.classicyams.com/street-bikes ... racer.html

Matt Spencer · Feb 4, 2012

Yea , but theyre jumped up little . . . They used to build a new car for everyrace with the Formular 5000's , and couldnt sort them out ( for some mysterious reason ) .They Got John Weyer , the grumpy head of Astons development & race program to organizize it to get anywhere . . .

PROBLEM could be Crank Shaft weight . Id find out what it weighs & what the balance factor is , Some fink 4 1/2 Lbs is Ideal .You can always weld bits on .
Balance facor would need to be between 65 & 80 % methinks . Olde English things were made from steel and iron , rather solidly , in some cases.( chassis ) .

The Enduro says ' ENGINE ' , they probly put it in a 350 LC & didnt have enough mass to damp it ( The VIBES ).Possibly Butchery , but the dismantle it and dont put ANYTHING back that isnt essential for opperation trip , would be the std. go for say a beach race or hillclimb ' ship ' .

Probly cheaper to grab a kwakersiki 650 dohc water cooled write off , and play with that , if youre into wheelies. Tho H2 750s fit in LCs they have vibration
issues too . Seemed nicer to ride than the LC though .Other Types put Worked BSA A65s into Bandit ( Triumph) or the road GP 90s Honda 250 chassis .

If its all mint and original ,swap it with these dudes , ( They like them ) for a Commando or Left Foot Bonneville . :mrgreen:
http://www.australianmotorcyclemuseum.c ... museum.php

Theyve got a unstarted 61 T110 & the R/R 5 litre V twin there too .

Dave Swanson · Feb 4, 2012

At 18 years old I was the proud owner of a new 74 Honda 750. I was completely smitten with my new bike and was enjoying it immensely. I hadn't considered a Norton as all my riding buds back in the day were Honda riders, plus the nearest Norton dealer was a good bit away from home. I hadn't seen one in person, but like all of us, enjoyed the Norton girl ads.

When riding through a local park I saw and heard a Commando up close for the first time. The owner jumped on the lever and I could not believe the sound coming out of those pipes. When he motored off, I thought "damn that's a real motorcycle". I still liked my CB 750, but I never looked at it in quite the same way after that day. I knew I would have a Commando one day. It took many years but I've got it now, and am continually impressed how good a motorcycle it really is!

Why Norton? Why Commando?

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