Why Norton? Why Commando?

Roadster_Kenny · Oct 22, 2011

Being brought up in a family rife with motorcyclists it was inevitable to end up being one myself. Having been around Triumphs, BMW's, Nortons, BSA's, Ducatis and Ariels it was highly unlikely that my favourite would ever end up being a Japanese bike. I do own one, but it's further away from running than my Commando, and was only bought due to it's 70's styling.

The only other bike I've been involved with that seems to have the same kind of following and devotion at the Norton Commando's is BMW's, especially the "R" twins (early 500's to the R100 series). Guys who have grown up around and owned/ridden BMW's seem to feel the same about them as we do about the Commando's (My dad's one of them). So even though I don't share their excitement, I can sympathize with them.

Kenny

concours · Jan 1, 2012

Matt Spencer said:
The alternative was a TX 750 or a XS triple shaft drive . :lol:

I was a poor teenager.. this was my hooligan bike, I dreamt of a Norton though. I bought this at the Bettencourt auction, freshened it a up a bit, still worth nothing :lol:

Matt Spencer · Jan 1, 2012

THAT's the Worlds First self imolateing motorcycle !

:shock: They wernt the full quid raceing . Read On . . .

Id hoped to get one , CHEAP . And use a disc grinder to CUT the Exhaust Balance off the front of the head .

The Area BETWEEN the EXHAUSTS where it Requires Maximum Cooling . So, they put a conductive alloy tunnel
right through the middle . So the more ya go the more it doesnt cool .In fact the Exhaust Gasses do the opposite . :cry:

Balance pipes had become fasionable , late 60s . Silenceing AND Low Speed tourque Increase .

The Theory was " The Closer to the Head , the More the Low End Tourque Increase " sorta like a variable length
tuned tuned length exhaust system ( Yea , they do those And Variable intakes , and bells and whistles these days )

So , General Tojo Instructs the poor draftsman that he wants it in the head , for maximum talk increase ? ? 8)
The Draftsmans got no option but Hari Kari , and the workers will be in the dungeons if they dont do what theyre told .

But NOT TO WORRY . I actually saw one in a Museum , that hadnt Blown Up . :lol:

,
The bleedy thing BOLTS ON ( put that disc grider away ) All you have to do , Is , UNBOLT IT
( The Stupid bit on the front beteen the pipes that not only shouldnt be there . . . Youve Got FIFE Minutes !

Post a photo , The pipesll probly plug straight through , and youll have the worlds first Yamaha ( XT750 ) that Goes !

Not Only That , The Valve Springs Fit a Norton Commando , and youve got TWO sets in there , with all those valves .
All is not lost , Decent Shocks , take the Baffles out , Stiff oil in the forks , decent tyres , and . . . :|

Sorry . :wink:

Torontonian · Jan 1, 2012

You're not gonna believe this but I was a poor Ottawa teenager too and at 16 yrs. old had saved up/worked to get myself an orange TX 750 that ran beautifull for the year I owned it despite being told the crank counterballance system would self destruct.That looks like the "fix" kit on the bottom although I have never seen one until just now. It was a good bike. My parents offered to buy me a new car if I gave up this motorcycle idea ,took about 10 seconds to ponder the offer then declared I wanted a motorcycle.They looked a little stunned. My next bike was a 70 S Norton .

Matt Spencer · Jan 1, 2012

Yea , the Oil Coolers part of the update . They about all failed in the Castrol 6 Hr here ( its rather warm ) and it was
pretty much the end of them in Aus. The Bird at the Museum said it was ' one of theirs ' and theyd done a few long tours on it and used it for a few years , No Problems . :shock: Disbelief . etc .

Youd get another 20 horse out of it looseing the stupid exhaust duct , or get the last 20 Hp its got without pretzleing it .
The lower temps would get greater efficency and output .

A silly artist at night school could cast up a pair of side ducts to the pipes , Though Id suspect a simple ' plug in ' set up would do it . Gotta Ask , do they weave / meander a bit , layed over in a 70 mph bend . Had a moment once , accelerated the ' poor mans ' rolls royce up to 75 to catch one thatd just past , to go into a down hill sweeper on the highway .
Misstimed as regards his progress had full anchors on pitching it ito the bend to maintain station well aft , The old Yam was doing a bit of a waver and I keept the brakes trailing for the first half of the bend so as to not get to close . :shock:
Bit of a moment , but the BSA / Yam bloke says thatd be about it on a Xt .

Youve got aftermarket rear shocks on the one in the picture ?? Should be a differant kettle of fish with the Duct GONE .

Matt

Carbonfibre · Jan 2, 2012

Matt Spencer said:
Yea , the Oil Coolers part of the update . They about all failed in the Castrol 6 Hr here ( its rather warm ) and it was
pretty much the end of them in Aus. The Bird at the Museum said it was ' one of theirs ' and theyd done a few long tours on it and used it for a few years , No Problems . :shock: Disbelief . etc .

Youd get another 20 horse out of it looseing the stupid exhaust duct , or get the last 20 Hp its got without pretzleing it .
The lower temps would get greater efficency and output .

A silly artist at night school could cast up a pair of side ducts to the pipes , Though Id suspect a simple ' plug in ' set up would do it . Gotta Ask , do they weave / meander a bit , layed over in a 70 mph bend . Had a moment once , accelerated the ' poor mans ' rolls royce up to 75 to catch one thatd just past , to go into a down hill sweeper on the highway .
Misstimed as regards his progress had full anchors on pitching it ito the bend to maintain station well aft , The old Yam was doing a bit of a waver and I keept the brakes trailing for the first half of the bend so as to not get to close . :shock:
Bit of a moment , but the BSA / Yam bloke says thatd be about it on a Xt .

Youve got aftermarket rear shocks on the one in the picture ?? Should be a differant kettle of fish with the Duct GONE .

Matt

Thing is Matt most manufacturers have made bikes they would rather forget (remember the Norton Jubilee?), but the main thing here is that Yamaha is still in the business of making bikes, and is doing pretty well and Norton hasnt been for some while!

Matt Spencer · Jan 2, 2012

Must be subsidised by the pianos , then there were those hideous electric keyboards old foageys tortured youths with .

Out in the Wilde antipodes , amongst the well heeled the Nortons Grand prix successes were in the recent past in 1970 .
MVs were obviously unobtainable , and the Motorway , being mostly two lanes ( one Each way ) made transport more of a necesity than a luxury , for those that chose to afford it .

With the heaviest casulties of the commonwealth in WW II , id respect the wishes of those that gave their all before some half assed blow hard with a literacey level of a girl .

mikie3117 · Jan 2, 2012

Started with a 1970 Bonneville. Parents made me sell it! Rode with a friend & his fastback to a rock festival in Louisiana. The Norton had more power and was smoother. I then spent the first year of my career in the USN drooling over the brochures for the 1972 Commando's. Bought a red Combat as soon as I could get a loan. I have been hooked ever since. Power, classic look, clean beautiful lines and damn fun to ride. When I built my last roadster, I thought it looked great just sitting there until I took that first ride. It was hard to sell that one.
Mike

swooshdave · Jan 2, 2012

Carbonfibre said:
but the main thing here is that Yamaha is still in the business of making bikes, and is doing pretty well and Norton hasnt been for some while!

Except that your argument is invalid, you propose that it was the quality of the bikes that determine if they succeed in the marketplace when in fact there are numerous reasons that a business succeeds or fails (product quality is only one aspect). But there's no reason to try to educate you on economics since you're just a'trollin with your shit on a Norton forum.

rvich · Jan 2, 2012

It's funny that this thread keeps coming back to life. I rode with a number of Yamaha owners back in the 70s when I had my original 850. There were some Suzukis in the mix and one particularly hated Kawasaki. I couldn't keep up with any of them off the line. But at the end of a day riding through the mountains they were all worn out and I would be grinning from enjoying my ride. You can't buy that shit. Oh wait you can, but you can't buy it by going to the Yamaha dealer. My enduro bikes of the day were all Japanese bikes. I still own two vintage Hondas and I have a snowblower, power carrier, generator and a pump that all carry the Honda logo. I also have a Yamaha outboard. So it isn't like I am blind to Japanese engineering.

Also during the 70s I owned an MG and a Triumph TR4. I ended up getting rid of both and buying a beat up 1967 Datsun 1600 Fairlady Roadster that put both of the previous cars to shame. The Fairlady was the predecessor to the famed 240Z. It had a four cylinder overhead cam engine with dual SU carbs. You could run it all day at red line and it wouldn't even blink. The car had a stance a bit wider than the British cousins and a VERY stiff frame and suspension. The car handled very well even in a four wheel drift around the bends on the old coast highway at Cape Perpetua. I still miss that car. If I got that from riding a Yamaha motorcycle, I would own one instead of a Commando.

Some machines have the right ballance of features that make them enjoyable to operate. It is really to the benefit of Commando enthusiasts if not everyone gets it. But then I own a wooden boat too, so you gotta figure that I am a little outside the box. Or maybe just on another planet altogether.

Russ

champ7fc · Jan 2, 2012

I owned a 1966 Triumph Bonnie back in 1967. Rode it to my Duty station in North Carolina from Connecticut in 1969. I was transfered out later on and had to leave it there. Bought a 1971 Commando Roadster in that year while home on leave. Six months later, Bad accident, bike totalled and in the Naval Hospital in Boston for 2 months. Rebuilt the Commando from the frame up. Rode it for 8 years but a growing family forced the sale. Fast forward to 2007, attended numerous Brit bike rallys on my 2007 Triumph Bonneville and decided I wanted my Commando back. I obtained a matching frame, engine, seized, and a tranny and started from there. I won't admit what I spent , If the better half found out I'm toast, sourced most of the parts from England and Old Brits. Four years later I have a completed bike. 100% Brit and I cannot wait to register it and ride. Craig

swooshdave · Jan 2, 2012

champ7fc said:
I owned a 1966 Triumph Bonnie back in 1967. Rode it to my Duty station in North Carolina from Connecticut in 1969. I was transfered out later on and had to leave it there. Bought a 1971 Commando Roadster in that year while home on leave. Six months later, Bad accident, bike totalled and in the Naval Hospital in Boston for 2 months. Rebuilt the Commando from the frame up. Rode it for 8 years but a growing family forced the sale. Fast forward to 2007, attended numerous Brit bike rallys on my 2007 Triumph Bonneville and decided I wanted my Commando back. I obtained a matching frame, engine, seized, and a tranny and started from there. I won't admit what I spent , If the better half found out I'm toast, sourced most of the parts from England and Old Brits. Four years later I have a completed bike. 100% Brit and I cannot wait to register it and ride. Craig

You can't tease us with a story like that without pictures!

splatt · Jan 2, 2012

rvich said:
. I also have a Yamaha outboard. So it isn't like I am blind to Japanese engineering.

How far out to sea would you go with a British out board ?

1up3down · Jan 2, 2012

A gentleman does not motor about after dark.
J. Lucas

rvich · Jan 2, 2012

splatt said:
rvich said:

. I also have a Yamaha outboard. So it isn't like I am blind to Japanese engineering.

How far out to sea would you go with a British out board ?

Click to expand...

Ever heard of a Seagull Outboard? They were once the choice for auxilary power for blue water cruisers because they were so dependable and easy to maintain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Seagull

concours · Jan 2, 2012

At first they had NO idea why they kept blowing up. Two main failures, 1) main and rod bearings (both plain type) and 2) the DUAL counterbalance shafts were chain driven... with no means to adjust that chain. The chain would stretch, the backlash would eventually cause chain snappage, flyweight/crankshaft interference and blammo. The answer was to convert the rear balancer mounting shaft to an eccentric shaft which allowed adjusting the chain. The crank/rod bearings failed because, they eventually found out, the oil was foaming.. BAD. A clever racer sawed the oil tank open and fitted a clear plastic window, proved the theory. Turns out the dry sump scavenge puddle was whipped by the balance shaft running down in it. By adding the 2" spacer (shown) it moved the scavenge oil puddle down away from the balance shaft, and the failures ceased. Course, there were other pain in the ass stuff like oil leaks, oil leaks into the points, more oil leaks, and oil leaks. They sent out replacement engines, many updates, but it was too late. The word was out. Nobody would buy them, despite clever marketing claims:

Matt Spencer · Jan 2, 2012

Bugger , I thought MY Commando was the smoothest .

Though the old 51 A 10 didnt exactly get excited . :lol: Yr going to dissapoint 35 years off asperations if you dont take that manifold off the Yam .
wonder what'd happen if you threw the balance shafts out ? ( did it on a Ford V4 2litre - mucho better ' lope ' best of them I had :shock: )Two faults std on them to, oil pump shaft too short , suss radiator volume .)

ANYWAY , the memories these things bring back . Youd stop to ooggle the Nortons at Colemans , Some immaculate machines there , 77 / 78 . Things are a bit behind in NZ . New T150 at Whites for $ 2.200 .
' A slow boat ' was a saying . A bloke on a Black Commandos pulled round the Front to relieve his nevous breakdown . Vents His Spleen , they used to say in the Mags . The Last Blankety Service . Warrenties .
" Thats It , I can look after it myself Now . LAST TIME I went over it before I took it in . Everything Spot On . Have to get it serviced here , for the warrenty . its at 1800 miles Now .
Got it back , all the tappets out , two close , but .. . back chain to tight . Thank god they didnt touch the Primary , I put a mark thre so I could check . To difficult for them Too bloody lazy . All theyve worked ons Jap bikes . wouldnt know how . Have to do it all agian myself . Fume mutter smoulder . Theres only about two blokes in Auckland these days you can take it to if you want it right . No wonder they have Blankety Problems .

Oh yes right , well then . Took ten minutes to calm down . Dunno if it was him & his mate turned up to get ' The last new interstate in the Country . To Bad , If I want It I have to . Immaculate 750 74 Tri , and
it turns out hes an engineer . The Triumps spotless & Gleaming , 2500 on her . The Black Interstates spotless and gleaming . And theyve already bumped up the price , around 3800 ??

Mine I built from a recovered stolen one . One Owner . pipes and tank / covers gone , no tyres . From the Original owner . 7104 on the clock & the roler Mains shot too , just for luck . The bloke was depressed
and indifferant . Couldnt believe it had gone in the week It took to T up . Long distance call ' Theres a Commando for sale , $ 700 ' the week after the Bonne was bought by a rip snorting farm boy to replace
his 2 year old alloy / yellow XT500 Yam , Lved way up the dirt roads and was a ' Throttle On ' rider . :shock:

SO , the toughts crossed my mind , these long crawl rebuilds , at least the mulling and studieing all the bits as we gatter the readies and the overhaul parts give us plenty of time to appreciate the fit and finnish .
As Nortons were ' Manx ' to me , Id bend swing it . Drop it to a set lean and let it ' run the bend ' on most of them , youd be surprised how many are constant radius .With the 23 T sprocket , shed trickle along in
top. Splitting the centreline , Lorries !tru a S bend , considered it adviseable to ' move out ' Hit 3rd at the switch , Throttle ' ON ' , putter putter stagger stagger , Hit 2nd , Thottle ON flicking up from the left ,
Snarl , p o u n c e .
Shed run 80 per hr in 2nd . Count to Three . drop er over right , crane the neck back over the shoulder checking the side roads . . . . Yeer , just like the Isle of Man .

:lol: 8)

Brithit · Jan 2, 2012

I'm doing this from memory, so bear with me. From the Cycle Magazine 25th year anniversary issue:

The TX750 by Yamaha
Was smooth and slick like a bananaha
Counterweights revolved hard
On chain by the yard,
And oil leaked hither and yonaha.

Hope I got that mostly right!

damn, those were great issues with Cook Neilson, Phil Schilling, Gordon Jennings, etal.

concours · Jan 2, 2012

Brithit said:
I'm doing this from memory, so bear with me. From the Cycle Magazine 25th year anniversary issue:

The TX750 by Yamaha
Was smooth and slick like a bananaha
Counterweights revolved hard
On chain by the yard,
And oil leaked hither and yonaha.

Hope I got that mostly right!

damn, those were great issues with Cook Neilson, Phil Schilling, Gordon Jennings, etal.

I didn't remember seeing that.. but got a good belly laugh when it was listed in Cycle World's "Top 10 Fizzles of All Time"

splatt · Jan 2, 2012

rvich said:
splatt said:

rvich said:

. I also have a Yamaha outboard. So it isn't like I am blind to Japanese engineering.

How far out to sea would you go with a British out board ?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Ever heard of a Seagull Outboard? They were once the choice for auxilary power for blue water cruisers because they were so dependable and easy to maintain.

Yes I have, and I still remember the times with dad rowing back to shore,or when it would die going through the breakers :shock:

Why Norton? Why Commando?

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