The bikes gave a decent account of themselves despite a deeply embedded and tightly entwined injection of ostrich DNA into the minds of the factory owners. It seems this was a nationwide pandemic across most industries, shame really as ingenuity and invention was never in short supply.
Why Norton, Why Bother!
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Richard Tool
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Alan’s post was well thought out and well put . If one of your kids causes trouble you wish it wasn’t so , do what you need to do to straighten things out but love them all the same . Alan states that Phil’s article was all true . Perhaps, but this is the first I’ve heard of the Interstate tank slapper . Two up , high speed, hands off the
bars - can we fault the bike for the last part ? I have a 2007 Honda ST 1300 that is rumored to do the same . ( the “Pan weave “)
Never experienced anything like that and someone who shall remain nameless has done WELL over the ton on it on occasion, albeit not in an overloaded condition and certainly not hands free.
Baz said it best - greater than the sum of it’s parts .
bars - can we fault the bike for the last part ? I have a 2007 Honda ST 1300 that is rumored to do the same . ( the “Pan weave “)
Never experienced anything like that and someone who shall remain nameless has done WELL over the ton on it on occasion, albeit not in an overloaded condition and certainly not hands free.
Baz said it best - greater than the sum of it’s parts .
That is all true. How many completely stock Commandos are there out there on the road ? If I take tour of my bike, the front fender stays, the front isolastic, the centerstand, the oil tank, footrest hangers, umm. I was going to put the tail light but it has a brighter halogen bulb. Tail light cover ! If you are not a mechanic, this is probably not a bike for you.
But once you fix all the obvious cost cutting, poor workmanship, 19th century assembly techniques, and just plain dumb stuff, fundamentally they are great bikes. Getting mine out for the first ride of the year reminded me of how eager it feels. Run it up a twisty road and that is why we all have them.
But once you fix all the obvious cost cutting, poor workmanship, 19th century assembly techniques, and just plain dumb stuff, fundamentally they are great bikes. Getting mine out for the first ride of the year reminded me of how eager it feels. Run it up a twisty road and that is why we all have them.
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“Triumph a mans motorcycle” Phil Pilgrim 2018I look forward to Mr Pilgrims perspective on the Triumph...it could just as well end up being a book
(edited version)
In the late forties my father bought a pre-war Tiger 100… set me on a path I have followed since I was a 14yo…
At 16 I started a 5 year apprenticeship a Cottrell's Garage…I was indoctrinated with the word Triumph and I had to own one come hell or high water… a 350 Triumph twin ... at about $250… the 1959 3TA Twenty-One… as I didn't have a licence I rode it for over a year around my backyard (where I now work) to clock-up 650 miles…reading Two Wheels magazine I was lusting over the Triumph adverts reading “Are you man enough for Triumph “ or “Triumph for the big ride” or “Triumph a mans motorcycle”…
When the first unit Bonnevilles came out… my mate Albey said to a friend after he heard I was going to buy a Bonnie "He will kill himself as well as he won't handle all the power"such was the legend of the beast.
Frank Musset & Co in Sydney rd Brunswick they were Victorian distributors for Triumph… was the place to go on Saturday what with 120 Triumphs on the showroom floor, and four wide and ten deep in the spares shop with eight on the counter…
Charlie Letch in Lygon St (a place I eventually owned and worked in for 26 years as Union Jack Motorcycles) Charley bought ex Police Triumph Saints at 40 a time, not a Bonnie but they were low mileage, well maintained and at $650 a steal…
a Dunstall Triumph 650… for $725… I bought it and repaired it… I fitted a ARE 750 big-bore kit and Spitfire profile cams it ate Honda 750's for breakfast only the H1 Kawasaki would out accelerate it off the line…
my next job at Frank Musset's… that's when I entered the Triumph world pre-delivering, servicing,and repairing as well as occasionally sales, I had made it.
Ted Simon the famous world traveller and author of Jupiters Travels mentioned me in his book after doggedly repairing his Tiger 100 during lunchtimes and after hours… I finally left in 1979 for a 12 month trip to Europe on a yuk Norton 850 Interstate.
I am proud to say I eventually sold the last "real Triumph" in Australia engine number 0001137… basically all my life now up to 66 yo has been spent with Triumph in the Triumph way”
A Triumph of design and it's effect on my life
For nigh on fifty years the Triumph motorcycle has been a major factor in my life. My grandfather, Allan Moore, bought a 1948 Speed Twin after his 1928 Henderson 4 had worn out. He never rode a solo so he had to get my father George to ride it back to Fairfield. The Speed Twin had a Dusting...
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"Ted Simon the famous world traveller and author of Jupiters Travels..." I found this a good read.
Jupiters Travels: Four Years Around the World on a Triumph
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/63417
I agree with most that has been said here, the good and the bad. Regardless of all that I bought my first one, used and needing electrical repair, in 1973, sold it in mid 80's bought the one I have now in 1989. The reason I bought the first one and the reason I still have my second one is because they look good, damned good.
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I prefer motorcycles which are completely rebuildable and for which making your own parts is relatively easy THeoretically A Commando with isolastics and a crankshaft which is balanced for low revs is badd design, however, for the way in which the bike is itended to be used it works well. What I like about Triumph twins in preference to a Nortoin tein, are the separate camshfts for inlet and exhaust. However with the single cam, Norton seem to have the combinastion corrext.
The Manx Norton was the best ever single cylinder 500cc road racer, and I suggest that Norton has had a lot of experience to build on. Most racing machines are not what is needed on public roads, however the Commando is a good compromise.
When I ride a racer, the sentre of my brain is glus in conjunction with my hand to the rear contact tyre contact patch on the road. The shimming of the isolastics and the head steady can make that relationship a bit uncertain. For a road bike it probably does not matter much, unless you use the Commando as a sports bike.
About the motor - I think it is hilarious that something so ugly could be so good. As produced, It is so correct in so many ways
I have ridden a 750cc Triumph triple. It was very easy to wheel stand, which tells me the weight distribution/torque charicteristic relationship is wrong. It matters when you are flat out riding on twisty roads.
I suggest, as a road bike, a Commando has a lot of merit. It is slowc enough to keep youn out of trouble and handles well enough to be ridden fast.
The Manx Norton was the best ever single cylinder 500cc road racer, and I suggest that Norton has had a lot of experience to build on. Most racing machines are not what is needed on public roads, however the Commando is a good compromise.
When I ride a racer, the sentre of my brain is glus in conjunction with my hand to the rear contact tyre contact patch on the road. The shimming of the isolastics and the head steady can make that relationship a bit uncertain. For a road bike it probably does not matter much, unless you use the Commando as a sports bike.
About the motor - I think it is hilarious that something so ugly could be so good. As produced, It is so correct in so many ways
I have ridden a 750cc Triumph triple. It was very easy to wheel stand, which tells me the weight distribution/torque charicteristic relationship is wrong. It matters when you are flat out riding on twisty roads.
I suggest, as a road bike, a Commando has a lot of merit. It is slowc enough to keep youn out of trouble and handles well enough to be ridden fast.
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For most of my life I had Triumph twins. Only three of my mates ever had Nortons, and only one was a Commando. I think the best of them was the Mancman 650. It really had some go, however a Honda CB750, in an idiot's mind might be as fast as Ago's MV.
Whet Norton had in the Manxman and Atlas were good enough, however the customers changed their preferences. Wnen a 750cc Norton motor idles, if it has a crank which is balanced for high reves, the whole bike moves backwards and frorwards. CB750 Hondas do not do that. If I wanted a bike which runs smooth, I would buy a boxer BMW.
Back in the 70s there was a theory - 'what wins races on Sunday, sells motorcycles on Monday'.
I met a guy the other day who did 280 KPH on the Hume Highway. The police caught up with him at his home a few days later. They could not prove he had done that speed, so he was not charged. The bike was an R1 Yamaha.
Whet Norton had in the Manxman and Atlas were good enough, however the customers changed their preferences. Wnen a 750cc Norton motor idles, if it has a crank which is balanced for high reves, the whole bike moves backwards and frorwards. CB750 Hondas do not do that. If I wanted a bike which runs smooth, I would buy a boxer BMW.
Back in the 70s there was a theory - 'what wins races on Sunday, sells motorcycles on Monday'.
I met a guy the other day who did 280 KPH on the Hume Highway. The police caught up with him at his home a few days later. They could not prove he had done that speed, so he was not charged. The bike was an R1 Yamaha.
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What a wonderful, naive, starry eyed and loyal bunch all of us Norton tragics really are!
I read the last paragraph oh gjr’s post and laughed at myself because I too am guilty of this mass ignus faatus that allows us to ignore or see past the many faults of our bikes as they were delivered. Yes, my heart agrees that our bikes are wonderful but my (limited) intellectual side uncomfortably disagrees and brings two aphorisms to mind regarding the work required to make a factory original machine ‘a really great bike’.
# If my Aunt had balls she’d be my Uncle
# The farmers 100 year old axe that has two new heads and three new handles
Boring though it may seem, I’m sure the proud owner of a brand new BMW 75/5 didn't need to fix ‘all the obvious cost cutting, poor workmanship, 19 century assembly techniques and just plain dumb stuff’ before enjoying the full potential of their bike, mile in, mile out.
yours in humour
Alan
Richard Tool
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I’ve personally seen two products of “marvelous German quality “What a wonderful, naive, starry eyed and loyal bunch all of us Norton tragics really are!
I read the last paragraph oh gjr’s post and laughed at myself because I too am guilty of this mass ignus faatus that allows us to ignore or see past the many faults of our bikes as they were delivered. Yes, my heart agrees that our bikes are wonderful but my (limited) intellectual side uncomfortably disagrees and brings two aphorisms to mind regarding the work required to make a factory original machine ‘a really great bike’.
# If my Aunt had balls she’d be my Uncle
# The farmers 100 year old axe that has two new heads and three new handles
Boring though it may seem, I’m sure the proud owner of a brand new BMW 75/5 didn't need to fix ‘all the obvious cost cutting, poor workmanship, 19 century assembly techniques and just plain dumb stuff’ before enjoying the full potential of their bike, mile in, mile out.
yours in humour
Alan
( same era as our beloved Nortons ) - you know the ones I mean - cylinders sticking out sideways 180 degrees apart - with brake drums so coarsely machined that the brake shoes were drawn to the backing plates every revolution like a nut following the threads of a screw in a never ending cycle of click - clack - click - clack .
Even the ones that weren’t made during Oktoberfest didn’t stop very well …
ashman
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I don't know everyone keep telling of all the problems with their Commando and how ancient in design and all their faults, I brought my new 74 850 Commando back in 76 with the desire to build it into a Featherbed down the road but as the first few years I had my share of problems the dreaded crack oil tank then the blown layshaft bearing and slipping clutch, chrome lifting off the rims and seized up auto advance and of course worn Amals, all this before it hit 1980 so 4 years on the road with only about 20k miles on it.
In 79 I got a Featherbed frame so in 1980 I started the rebuild/conversion for a 850 Featherbed and motor rebuild and crank balaced for the Featherbed frame and new Amal carbs to replace the worn out Amals and any parts that needed replacing, a 2 1/2 year project making my Norton into a light weight hotrod and to be honest never really had many issues with it in the 40 + years since the conversion except for general maintenance and replacing worn bits as time goes by and after 46+ years still using orginial valves, cam but mine you my cam was built up to 2S profile and grind and on it only 40th rebore, my motor has been pretty reliable but I did replace the crank cases from a broken front barrel stud piece that broke off on the crank case and hair line features around the main crank seal caused from my first few years of flogging the crap out of my Norton from doing burn outs and just being young and silly.
But after the conversion I got out of my flogging days as I got older and settled down, my Norton was a everyday rider most of its life till 2013 and well over 160k miles on it, and its been pretty reliable so now with my modern Triumph taking over everyday duties my Norton is still going and still reliable its just now semi retired and will be till I leave this life, but over the 46+ years it's had its share of good upgrades from the factory and the secret to long life keep up the maintenance, don't pussie it but don't flog the crap out of it and run good oil and give it a pat on the tank and say thank you when you get home from a great ride safely.
My hotrod build is over 80% Commando running gear from my original Commando with upgraded front brakes, ignition and suspension as well open exhaust.
To me Norton's aren't that bad I just love working on it as it's so simple, mine will never leave me.
Ashley
In 79 I got a Featherbed frame so in 1980 I started the rebuild/conversion for a 850 Featherbed and motor rebuild and crank balaced for the Featherbed frame and new Amal carbs to replace the worn out Amals and any parts that needed replacing, a 2 1/2 year project making my Norton into a light weight hotrod and to be honest never really had many issues with it in the 40 + years since the conversion except for general maintenance and replacing worn bits as time goes by and after 46+ years still using orginial valves, cam but mine you my cam was built up to 2S profile and grind and on it only 40th rebore, my motor has been pretty reliable but I did replace the crank cases from a broken front barrel stud piece that broke off on the crank case and hair line features around the main crank seal caused from my first few years of flogging the crap out of my Norton from doing burn outs and just being young and silly.
But after the conversion I got out of my flogging days as I got older and settled down, my Norton was a everyday rider most of its life till 2013 and well over 160k miles on it, and its been pretty reliable so now with my modern Triumph taking over everyday duties my Norton is still going and still reliable its just now semi retired and will be till I leave this life, but over the 46+ years it's had its share of good upgrades from the factory and the secret to long life keep up the maintenance, don't pussie it but don't flog the crap out of it and run good oil and give it a pat on the tank and say thank you when you get home from a great ride safely.
My hotrod build is over 80% Commando running gear from my original Commando with upgraded front brakes, ignition and suspension as well open exhaust.
To me Norton's aren't that bad I just love working on it as it's so simple, mine will never leave me.
Ashley
The only major change/ improvement I've made to my Mark 3 was to upgrade the front brake.What a wonderful, naive, starry eyed and loyal bunch all of us Norton tragics really are!
I read the last paragraph oh gjr’s post and laughed at myself because I too am guilty of this mass ignus faatus that allows us to ignore or see past the many faults of our bikes as they were delivered. Yes, my heart agrees that our bikes are wonderful but my (limited) intellectual side uncomfortably disagrees and brings two aphorisms to mind regarding the work required to make a factory original machine ‘a really great bike’.
# If my Aunt had balls she’d be my Uncle
# The farmers 100 year old axe that has two new heads and three new handles
Boring though it may seem, I’m sure the proud owner of a brand new BMW 75/5 didn't need to fix ‘all the obvious cost cutting, poor workmanship, 19 century assembly techniques and just plain dumb stuff’ before enjoying the full potential of their bike, mile in, mile out.
yours in humour
Alan
Other than that, not much has changed.
It's still running all the same engine internals that it left the factory with in 1975. I change the oil every 2,000 miles and don't need to add oil between changes. About 40,000 miles on the ODO to date.
Glen
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lmao
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It is our passion to keep the classic British motorcycles on the road, not as distant memory of a by gone era.
Union Jack Motorcycles
It is our passion to keep classic British motorcycles on the road, not as distant memory of a by gone era.
www.unionjack.com.au
Fast Eddie
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Cos if we weren’t obsessive about this, it’d be something else, alcohol, drugs, etc !!
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baz
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When I built my Seeley 850, I never believed in it. I have never had another motor which has been so right. It should not be anywhere near quick enough to be competitive. It has really amazed me. It has had almost nothing done to it. I think any Commando with a rebalanced crank and jertted correctly and with a close ratio gearbox, would be fast enough for any idiot.
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