Why Norton should definitely continue to build the 961

It would have a lot more power all over with the 1200 Thrux motor stuffed in there.
As you can tell, the nebulous stuff escapes me. No imagination I guess.

Glen
 
I say if Norton (TVS) plan on cancelling the 961, then they should adapt the Thaiumph 1200 lump as the new Command motor.
They can take a 1200 motor to Ricardo, and tell them to redesign it accordingly:

1. Tilt the cylinders forward 15 Degree. (everybody knows the Commando's cylinders are canted forward)
2. Redesign the shape of the right side "timing" cover to look more Norton-ish, less Thaiumph-ish.
3. Change the head to DOHC from the Thaiumph SOHC design. Less Thaiumph-ish.
4. Drive the cams with a central geartrain like the RC51 Honda. Less Thaiumph-ish.
5. Emboss "Norton" on all engine covers.
6. Stuff new mill into a bitchin' looking Norton frame.
7. and pay Ricardo a load of cash, but far less than Norton would have spent redesigned a new motor themselves.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I met two guys with those kind of things in a petrol station when I was out on my 961.

They had each spent more than I had on my 961 !!

I remained polite and courteous in our conversation (just as my Mum always told me to), but I really did not get it !

They weren’t young lads, or small either, so riding them created quite an ‘image’.

Ah well, unto each his own…
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I’m with you. A good friend of my dumped $12k USD into his Honda grom. Why? I don’t get it.
 
Love the Triton image above, especially because it is special/unique. Love the Thruxton RS, well the exclusive TFC anyway.

Do I want my Norton 961 to feel like a modern mass produced machine, silky smooth and predictable, rider aids and linked everything? No, not really. You have gotta ride the Norton and be pretty in-tune with it if you want to do so quickly. Visceral, clunky, noisy and a tad agricultural - definitely. Great description above, you have to be ‘involved’ in both riding and ownership.

Why Norton should definitely continue to build the 961
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Love the Triton image above, especially because it is special/unique. Love the Thruxton RS, well the exclusive TFC anyway.

Do I want my Norton 961 to feel like a modern mass produced machine, silky smooth and predictable, rider aids and linked everything?
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That all makes perfect sense.
But there's really no reason that a new Norton Commando with a Thaiumph 1200 variant engine has to be this way.
Norton can take any engine and re-balance it to vibrate like a 961 does, or use an outdated EFI system so the engine runs poorly and has no rider aids, like a 961. In essence, Norton can de-evolve the refined 1200 motor into behaving like a 961, but with better power, and reliability of course.
 
worntorn said:
Here's the problem. The bike below already exists. All high spec, alloy swing arm and so on. Established manufacturer, reliable bikes, full dealer network and good warranty. Already out in the market for 7 years now with various finishes, well tested.
Expensive but not silly money.

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For me at least, that wasn't true. I owned one because I thought buying it would appease the want I had for the 961. It didn't.

It's like another thread here somewhere, you need an appliance and a motorbike. For me, the Thruxton was too sanitised, and just felt like an appliance. I appreciate we aren't all the same and don't see it like that but.
 
One of my Vincent mates tried out a Thruxton R at a Dealership and didn't care for it.
He thought it vibrated too much!
I think he was feeling the power pulse, which is quite strong, but is only felt on hard acceleration.
Goes to show you can't please everyone, but that bike comes pretty close.

Glen
 
BritTwit said:
That all makes perfect sense.
But there's really no reason that a new Norton Commando with a Thaiumph 1200 variant engine has to be this way.
Norton can take any engine and re-balance it to vibrate like a 961 does, or use an outdated EFI system so the engine runs poorly and has no rider aids, like a 961. In essence, Norton can de-evolve the refined 1200 motor into behaving like a 961, but with better power, and reliability of course.
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I’m sensing the faint hint of sarcasm there BT! Which is ok, one of my favourite forms of wit.

You would need to be a dimwit indeed though to de-evolve a reliable, powerful engine so that engine ran poorly! Unless you we’re a masochist of course.

We all want different things of course, some are looking for watermelon chocolate chip sorbet, whilst others are happy with vanilla ice cream;)!
 
I chose not to go for the Thruxton as the finish was too much like a kitchen appliance with brushed metal and matt finishes but I saw this mild custom and I might be convinced for those extra 20hp or so. Would have kept the Ohlins/brembo 'R' front end though....
Why Norton should definitely continue to build the 961
 
Clive said:
I chose not to go for the Thruxton as the finish was too much like a kitchen appliance with brushed metal and matt finishes but I saw this mild custom and I might be convinced for those extra 20hp or so. Would have kept the Ohlins/brembo 'R' front end though....
View attachment 94288
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I wonder how hard it was to re jet those monoblocs for the open pipes? ;)
 
Clive said:
I chose not to go for the Thruxton as the finish was too much like a kitchen appliance with brushed metal and matt finishes but I saw this mild custom and I might be convinced for those extra 20hp or so. Would have kept the Ohlins/brembo 'R' front end though....
View attachment 94288
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Pretty cool Thaiumph custom.
I would have used gaiters on the RWU front end.
But I agree on the "R" front end and radial Brembos, the superior performance is worth the divergence from classic appearance.
 
City Garage said:
Speaking about the USA market only. Unfortunately the market has already soured on Norton along with a small network of soured dealers. You might find one dealer who might want to sell them as long as they aren't a service nightmare. The new version would need to be 100% well ok 99% flawless to get back any credibility on the 961. Using technology from 1999 is not the way to do it. I mean even some modern fuel injection would be a step up. We have taken apart a lot of the 961's and you can immediately see how poorly they are made. So much is design flaws that keep getting duplicated instead of fixed. Its not just small changes that need to be made, its a complete shift. Then once you do that you are back to getting the bike approved for a US Market which means passing CARB again. Will they go through all the trouble just to sell a handful of motorcycles? You can't answer that until you actually know how many they sold here in the first place. We have talked to some of the original dealers and the numbers sold don't add up to much. In fact no one actually knows how many are even in the USA. Also look at the classifieds over in the UK. Many new bikes still sitting for sale and last I looked 20-30 used on the market place that haven't moved much

The look of the motorcycle is what draws many in but to have something that is so inconsistent from one motorcycle to the next is just crazy. Its like the Delorean of motorcycles.
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It seems sometimes this site does more to discourage the purchase of a Norton 961 than to encourage it . And now with TVS Norton essentially not supporting the 961 and the lockdown of Norton 961 suppliers , what is next ? Can you blame folks for not buying ? The slow morphine drip of information coming from TVS Norton , or should I say the no drip of information ?
 
TonyA said:
It seems sometimes this site does more to discourage the purchase of a Norton 961 than to encourage it . And now with TVS Norton essentially not supporting the 961 and the lockdown of Norton 961 suppliers , what is next ? Can you blame folks for not buying ? The slow morphine drip of information coming from TVS Norton , or should I say the no drip of information ?
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I don't think its the site that does the discouraging you don't have to look far for people or dealers that had issues. Plus the years for problems found on this site. Not much different than other brands that have had issues. Look at some of the short run car companies that tried this. The problem with the information age is that its easier to get the information. Imagine if the forums were available in the 70's or 80's Harley would have never recovered etc.

What suppliers are locked down?
 
There's really nothing to do but hope that TVS sees the potential in the brand - if handled properly.
If they do, we should see signs of life from the factory soon, but it will take time to do things right - this time.
Patience can be a bitch, and a virtue.
I want them to take their time and get it right, no more screw-ups, or shoddy products.
 
City Garage said:
I don't think its the site that does the discouraging you don't have to look far for people or dealers that had issues. Plus the years for problems found on this site. Not much different than other brands that have had issues. Look at some of the short run car companies that tried this. The problem with the information age is that its easier to get the information. Imagine if the forums were available in the 70's or 80's Harley would have never recovered etc.

What suppliers are locked down?
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Parts makers who can't sell to us directly I mean.
 
To me, TVS has left a bad taste in my mouth.

This wouldn’t be so if they would just sell the spare parts for damn sakes.
They can’t warranty a bike they didn’t make, they won’t repair a bike they didn’t make, and now they won’t sell spare parts they didn’t make.
And I won’t buy a bike they make….or haven’t even yet made. Why would I want to support a company that can’t even help the consumer that helped them?

Let’s be honest, we’re in no better shape as owners now then we were when garner went belly up.
 
Voodooo said:
To me, TVS has left a bad taste in my mouth.

This wouldn’t be so if they would just sell the spare parts for damn sakes.
They can’t warranty a bike they didn’t make, they won’t repair a bike they didn’t make, and now they won’t sell spare parts they didn’t make.
And I won’t buy a bike they make….or haven’t even yet made. Why would I want to support a company that can’t even help the consumer that helped them?

Let’s be honest, we’re in no better shape as owners now then we were when garner went belly up.
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Thankfully they have (at least) $100million hole in their pocket.

That's a fair incentive to get it right. And the brand hero isn't the V4.

Ask Triumph which of their bikes carry the brand.
 

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