When is a fork brace required?

HYDE in BIG LETTERS if you can find one.

Here's a couple pages from 2006-7 on the yea and nays of Hyde fork braces and issues. Scan the web on fork brace to see mostly not worth it on street and fast touring but does help racers and off roaders.
fork-brace-t1492-15.html

hobot said:

...but does help racers and off roaders.

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Steve - does evidence matter to you? If fork braces were a really useful racing modification to Roadholder forks, then you would likely see them on successful racers, as has already been illustrated above. I don't recall ever seeing a fork brace on a short circuit or real roads classic racing machine. You have several long posts in this thread in a form of English that no-one understands except you. Why do you do this?

Dave

Ludwig's pictures make the point. I take his point but I don't want to.

It has been a long time since I experimented with it but my recollection is that I could feel that with brake on the right side, without a brace the bike pulls right under hard braking; I could feel the difference. I had to compensate by steering left. Admittedly this was most apparent in slower hard braking corners, where as a matter of time - on the race track - it matters less.

Also, while I can't perceive it - don't forks bind a bit as they twist?
Doesn't that inhibit fork action? Especially under trail braking when free front suspension action is critical?

Most sportbikes/racers today have large diameter hollow axles and they have axle clamps on both sides; I assume that these improvements eliminate or reduce any need for braces.

Not that I'm comparing myself to Peter Williams or Gary Thwaites and yes, my bike has two discs and yes, it has a fork brace: but as far as I'm concerned the only good it's doing is to provide something to keep the brake hoses off the wheel.

I've had braces on other race bikes, taken them off and noticed no difference. Generally they appear to be far too flimsy in themselves or their attachment to the sliders to be anything other than cosmetic.

I wonder if there are other fenders out there that are more rigidly formed that would act as a fork brace. I don't know about the offering from CNW, but I have looked at stuff like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/78-Yamaha-XS650 ... 52&vxp=mtr

Yeah, I know...but they tend to be cheap and they are really stiff. I have access to one, I plan to test fit it to the bike when the opportunity arises.

Russ

Steve - does evidence matter to you? If fork braces were a really useful racing modification to Roadholder forks, then you would likely see them on successful racers, as has already been illustrated above. I don't recall ever seeing a fork brace on a short circuit or real roads classic racing machine. You have several long posts in this thread in a form of English that no-one understands except you. Why do you do this?
Dave

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Ugh Dave, Ms Peel is a miracle handler beyond what any other motorcycle have displayed in all the video I've watched or rode in life/death contests in Mt. Chiances with real squids passing over blind crests and sharp bends to pass me held up behind a car or turck, then I'd wait like a min or so for a view ahead to pass a car or 3 in the way and catch back up within a min or so and have to back off or get so close I was afraid I'd press em into fatal errors on their corner cripples. In other words even with just good Combat power Ms Peel was like twice as fast/harsh on serious corners and decreasers on rough surfaces over 45's involved. Had fun goes with reasoned seasoned vacationing cycle racers out for joy rides on their paired down moderns, but they couldn't-wouldn't keep up either to 90's mph in turns nor over 130 in opens. So Peel had to go in harsher-faster-hotter-further over than moderns can take ^Before^ the Need of fork brace revealed on her Roadholders. This is why many don't think a brace is needed and its not, as they can not put down the power loads their forks might need one, plus moderns have dang robust forks to begin with. I stopped bothering with dangerous [to others] contests after a couple seasons on Peel as all my fun stuff was so so fast that its always just a solo ride. It took literal leaps of faith to press loads beyond sports bikes, so no one can understand but me how safe and secure and smooth a motorcycle can be. So even if real racers vintage to modern don't need a fork brace, that sure don't apply to Peel on her wimpy thin Roadholders.

Scanning web on this finds most don't notice anything helpful with a brace added and a lot sold it off for $100's but a few did notice its benefits on and off road - so its not a bad thing to try if ya can afford it but don't expect anything but decoration unless ya into the wild side of high loads on and off road.

Also realize hobot Roadholders have 6" travel, 4 progressive spring rates, progressive dampening and total soft silent stop rebounds so the RGM brace with its extended slider and stanchion support was a real bonus to Peel's forks. It stabilized Roadholders to point i'd ride a locked front many bike lengths trying to stoppie, but I'd sure not of been able to hold her inline w/o the tri-links stabilizing all the wiggling mass behind piling up on front tire patch. I gave deep thot to going with dual or single brake on new next Peel [duals only needed to spread the heat of racers that have to slow down so so much for turns] but realized I just didn't need to brake much when going fast so figured less spun and unsprung mass would be more benefit --- as Ms Peel bleeds speed same way that stunt rider did to dismount with side stand down, which converts entering speed into exit aligned speed - with horrific loads induced - but completely taken up by the whole isolastic steel tube 2 part hinged flexy wonder. Oh yeah the stunter used rear brake like the supermotards do but Peel uses throttle to swing around so actually adding energy where everyone else and their sister is draining it- poor dangerous corner cripples.

rvich said:

I wonder if there are other fenders out there that are more rigidly formed that would act as a fork brace. I don't know about the offering from CNW, but I have looked at stuff like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/78-Yamaha-XS650 ... 52&vxp=mtr

Yeah, I know...but they tend to be cheap and they are really stiff. I have access to one, I plan to test fit it to the bike when the opportunity arises.

Russ

Click to expand...

That might seem stiff when you are holding it in your hands, but with quarter ton of motorcycle acting on a couple of levers that are the fork legs it ain't much.

You can see the Ddouble Ddiscs on this .



at the time the ' interviews ' in the press pattled on that ' it was as the forks were twisting with the 11 in single disc ' .

The dual 11s were stated as a temporary measure , untill the dual 10 in were ready .

though they didnt at dAYTONA .

though unless theyre not the same , they DO here .

so as not to need a fork brace . :lol:

A cross between these two , ( BM ' R ' series brace ) & Penton . ?





Vertical tags , loop center over - with flat middle & raised loop ends to catch guard . Might be something like it .
Helps if you can get the wheel on & off without removeing it , even if you have to deflate the tyre .

if youre in the habit of getting the front tyre to howl at 100+ mph , it might pay to fit one . :?

yamahaha one - XS 650 http://www.650central.com/tech/mintonmods.htm

This sort of things what someone was mentioning .



you can see how this bulges out around the tyre then narrower where bolting to legs .

which is why theyre sometime cut away to clear sliders so as to get more room at the tyre . REMEMBERING you want it as a BRACE , not a collander .



some fancy alloy , bent hydraulicly is going to be tougher than plain old aLUMINIUM . Maybe with 5/16 rethreaded cap screws ( C'sunk ) to FASTEN . :x

so the Hyde one looks a little more sensable , perhaps . fork-brace-and-fiberglass-t7616.html

Good variety Matt. I've slided the front of SuVee, ugh and Ms Peel, ahh, at fast enough speed pavement acts like moist Gravel but only times I got fork twist delay / spring back was in very fast switch backs and one other more wild situation. When ya get over 90 mph on THE Gravel paths the tires expand and begin to act like a belt on a domed face pulley, ie: the crown of the tire and the center crest between tire ruts draw them together so its almost impossible to stay in the slightly dished cleared tire ruts, so w/o trying the bike centers itself on the long pile of loose stuff and suddenly transitions from motorcycle to jet ski and must stay on accelerating power to keep front light enough it don't dig in, literally like a ski staying on a plane only the tail end doing the job, but real paths have sharp turns, so soon as throttle backed off the front digs in to rudder flutter like crazy and the tires lose the self centering effect so all hell breaks loose trying to both control the forks from tank slap yet not so tight they can't fling fast to follow the direction CoG is going, so in and out of flat tracker slides to slight low to hi sides, wobble-wiggle-weaves! This is one of the states I absolutely abhore a steering damper as it caused me to crash doing this on SuVee so removed it. Oh a damper helps for normal hi speed over uneven rough stuff but not when really kicking up heels fast as hwy speeds. If ya not pressing loads like I've described likely won't miss a brace. It was after getting a nack for the above I contacted Keith Code for a pow wow and got to perfect Gravel Travel on hard tack. His Ninja's didn't have a brace and may of been what took me down from a wheelie at ~120 mph when slightly turned forks impacted, woohooie Burt Munro flashback.

To Boldy go ,where no man as been before! Hoping you have the ANTI-GRAVEL device on

Its a fact both me and Wes are often put off by state of THE Gravel we both decide it ain't worth its risk to ride that day. I sure don't do the fast stuff on it no more like during my learning curves Peel invited me into, so a brace is not needed by either of us to cross it 'normally'. I've not been crashed on it in several years but Wes has on his '69 Bonneville about 2 yr ago, as usual w/o even trying. Its rough ness broke a rear spoke on Wes's '71 this month but I had a spare he was able to bend in and straighten to fit for a sense of its wear and tear on us. If we had a choice we'd go miles out of our way to avoid it. i look forward to real off road and hill climbs but not daily commutes even on Peel which is about sole reason for a crash cage to protect the Blower investment. THE Gravel changes its state d/t rain or traffic or the Grader fluffing it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cmK8dCX5ug

Any one after fork braces can look on http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk where you can download a fork brace drawing. You fill in the required dimensions.

I had one nearly identical to the double looped one shown in the earlier post on my bike for about a month. It was really difficult to set up so the forks work smoothly. The bike and the fork brace have to be perfect in all planes after the bolts are tightened. I never could achieve that level of perfection and after a while I reached the end of my patience shimming and dicking around with it. (This was back in my mid 20s.) Looking back, I think that when these braces are made the heat from welding makes them spring out of true when released from the jig.

Russ

"Now the question is being asked as to whether there will be an increase in fork flex under braking requiring the fitting of a fork brace ?"

After reading comments here I come up with "no".

LOL
Russ

I have stood with a Manx wheel gripped between my knees and the forks twist about 3/4 inch, when i let go of the wheel, it flopped about ,turning from side to side with the forks...so why the big deal :?: Flex and Mick Doohan went together very well....in fact complained if the forks/frame didnt!

yes concensus seems to be why bother, thanks everyone for their contribution, now I can the front together and back on the road sooner cheers all - G

As mentioned above by more than one rider including me, its rather touchy to impossible to get the brace set up not to restrict fork motion, so the high cost of those that can be set up well, after the fork itself is up to snuff. I had to fuss with RGM brace a long time w/o any joy till finally took stanchions off and rolled them together to see some slight .000th's of inch gaps so had to get new stanchions to finally get RGM brace to work as expected. I like the looks of braces even if a bit more mass, its a sporty statement and proof of a good mechanic - machinist with about perfect condition forks.

As for asymmetric single rotor fork twists, its known to occur in some few cases but not the majority by far. Here's some brief scope on this to ponder which opinion to settle on.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 936AA6Hjsd