Wheelbuilding 102 for Dummies

swooshdave · Mar 25, 2011

CanukNortonNut said:
Dave
You will need to tighten the disk side spokes first to get the offset to behave. I think its 5/8" offset but I am away on a jobsite and I don't have my Roy Bacon Norton twin Restoration book to verify so maybe someone else can check the front wheel. Good luck.
Regards,
CNN

I'm using the numbers from Old Birtts. There's a link in a previous post.

DogT · Mar 25, 2011

Yes, I've never done a disk wheel. I don't know why I had so much trouble with one if my drum wheels, they are pretty much the same, unless the heads on the spokes were bend differently in one set. That may account for it.

Dave
69S

T95 · Mar 26, 2011

CanukNortonNut said:
Dave
You will need to tighten the disk side spokes first to get the offset to behave. I think its 5/8" offset but I am away on a jobsite and I don't have my Roy Bacon Norton twin Restoration book to verify so maybe someone else can check the front wheel. Good luck.
Regards,
CNN

I think you have a couple of ways to offset/dish the wheel. The easiest, as stated above, is to start early in the tensioning process and tighten the disk side say two revolutions of the nipple for every one on the other side. Truing is generally a give and take process where you tension one side and loosen the other. This process is exaggerated to obtain the dish/offset. If you already have a fair amount of tension on the spokes it might require slacking off on the non-drive side say 2:1 to get movement. Of course the 2:1 is only an example that will naturally decrease to 1/8 turns as you fine tune the truing. You will get to a point where you have your offset and the tensioning gets back to more of a 1:1

swooshdave · Mar 26, 2011

Sorry to disappoint you guys but I'm going to take the wheels in to someone. There's this crusty old motorcycle shop nearby and they can do this easily. I've driven past the shop countless times and was always scared to go in. :mrgreen:

But I've been told by several people these are the guys to take a wheel to.

Since I'm going to have someone put the tire on (I'll scratch the shit out of it) anyways, might as well let them true it and such. Their prices are suppose to be really reasonable too.

Also I haven't been feeling well, so being out in a cold garage for many hours isn't really all that smart. I did it when I did the back wheel and that was, ahem, not a good idea.

swooshdave · Mar 26, 2011

That was scary.

T95 · Mar 27, 2011

swooshdave said:
That was scary.

What up?
Let me guess, your wheel builder is a member of the 1% club. It was blood in/ blood out for you and now you can't talk?

swooshdave · Mar 27, 2011

T95 said:
swooshdave said:

That was scary.

Click to expand...

What up?
Let me guess, your wheel builder is a member of the 1% club. It was blood in/ blood out for you and now you can't talk?

Let's just say if these guys were 1%ers, they were at Hollister, THE FIRST TIME. :shock:

I was warned this guy would say he had no idea what he was doing but not to listen to him and just leave the wheels with him. When I tried to describe offset he thought I was crazy (like I was the one crazy in the room...) so even after insisting that he had done many Commando wheels he still didn't understand what I meant.

I said offset the rear wheel 3/16in to the speedo side. That just got looks of disbelief.

I then brought in the front wheel and said just make the hub stick out evenly on either side.

He said that he'd true them up and I could get the wheels and try them. Luckily the shop is really close so it's no big deal.

swooshdave · Mar 27, 2011

bpatton · Mar 27, 2011

swooshdave said:
I then brought in the front wheel and said just make the hub stick out evenly on either side.
He said that he'd true them up and I could get the wheels and try them. Luckily the shop is really close so it's no big deal.

WTF?
Dave, You may want to think about getting your wheels back before they take a shot at them. The rear is a breeze, you can do it. Buchanon's can do the front for $80 plus shipping.

swooshdave · Mar 27, 2011

bpatton said:
swooshdave said:

I then brought in the front wheel and said just make the hub stick out evenly on either side.
He said that he'd true them up and I could get the wheels and try them. Luckily the shop is really close so it's no big deal.

Click to expand...

WTF?
Dave, You may want to think about getting your wheels back before they take a shot at them. The rear is a breeze, you can do it. Buchanon's can do the front for $80 plus shipping.

$100+shipping. Everyone has told me this guy is really good, if not slightly crazy. Ok, maybe slightly is being generous. The rear is simple, it's the front that is tricky, but as long as I can get the disk centered in the brake I'm good. Shouldn't be difficult to tell if it's off. :mrgreen:

Besides, it makes for an interesting read for you guys...

cjandme · Mar 27, 2011

Besides, it makes for an interesting read for you guys...
That's the spirit Swooshdave, I love this stuff. Cj

swooshdave · Mar 30, 2011

Got a call today. The guy called Buchanans and got the offsets. He wants me to come down and confirm that's what I want. Unfortunately I won't be able to get down this week unless I luck out and make it Friday after work and before he closes at 4pm. Saturday is out, probably not appropriate to skip the funeral to take care of the wheels... But it looks like I can take next week off so Monday is looking really good, assuming the shop is open then. Which it probably won't be, so... Tuesday. Sigh.

cjandme · Mar 31, 2011

oh well, tuesday it is then, sounds like the guy is gonna do right by you if he called to find out about the offset. Cj

swooshdave · Apr 5, 2011

cjandme said:
oh well, tuesday it is then, sounds like the guy is gonna do right by you if he called to find out about the offset. Cj

Rear went on and looks good. It there some trick to getting the rear axle spacer on that doesn't require profanity? Need some help getting the front wheel on, not easy when it's on the bench. I'll know then if the front offset is right.

Tab was $204.

pete.v · Apr 5, 2011

swooshdave said:
Rear went on and looks good. It there some trick to getting the rear axle spacer on that doesn't require profanity? Need some help getting the front wheel on, not easy when it's on the bench.

Tab was $204.

Profanity is a requirement along with a wonder bar in the right location between the speedo drive and swingarm.

As far as the front goes, I be right over. Common man, the front's a breeze, especially on a bench. :mrgreen:

swooshdave · Apr 5, 2011

pvisseriii said:
swooshdave said:

Rear went on and looks good. It there some trick to getting the rear axle spacer on that doesn't require profanity? Need some help getting the front wheel on, not easy when it's on the bench.

Tab was $204.

Click to expand...

Profanity is a requirement along with a wonder bar in the right location between the speedo drive and swingarm.

As far as the front goes, I be right over. Common man, the front's a breeze, especially on a bench. :mrgreen:

I got some help. Everything went together perfect. I thought the front might need to be adjusted as the disk was off but then we got the bike down and I snugged up the disk and there's no runout. My brother will be back on Friday so we can mess around with a bunch of stuff, like the new muffler mounts.

Carbonfibre · Apr 5, 2011

An error which is made time and time again by people in regard to wheels, is not making a not of the offset before taking the wheels apart. This is very easily checked, using a straight edge and a steel rule. Put the straight edge onto the outside surface of the rim closest to brake drum, and using the rule measure the distance down to rim centreline, then bring the straight edge close to the brake drum face, and measure distance from drum face to face of straight edge bearing on the rim, then add this to the measurement taken earlier and thats the offset required.

Some people think the offset is measured from edge of rim, but this will put things way out if a different width of rim is fitted, so always work from rim centerline to datum such as brake drum or disc mounting face.

swooshdave · Apr 5, 2011

Carbonfibre said:
An error which is made time and time again by people in regard to wheels, is not making a not of the offset before taking the wheels apart. This is very easily checked, using a straight edge and a steel rule. Put the straight edge onto the outside surface of the rim closest to brake drum, and using the rule measure the distance down to rim centreline, then bring the straight edge close to the brake drum face, and measure distance from drum face to face of straight edge bearing on the rim, then add this to the measurement taken earlier and thats the offset required.

Some people think the offset is measured from edge of rim, but this will put things way out if a different width of rim is fitted, so always work from rim centerline to datum such as brake drum or disc mounting face.

If you recall the original intent was to ship the hubs to Buchanan's and let them build the wheels. Of course that didn't happen and I went with Plan B, but in the end it all worked out. I did save a little on the deal, especially shipping. And I have a new place I trust to take my wheels to. Well, as long as they are still alive. That place had a definite patina going on!

Carbonfibre · Apr 5, 2011

Guys in small shops are often much better at building wheels than the big well known places, who very often dont do that good a job, and always charge top money.

swooshdave · Apr 5, 2011

Carbonfibre said:
Guys in small shops are often much better at building wheels than the big well known places, who very often dont do that good a job, and always charge top money.

Sadly, most of those shops won't last. We should enjoy them while they last.

Wheelbuilding 102 for Dummies

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