Wheelbuilding 102 for Dummies

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The lacing shown in the photo appears to be a conventional 2-cross pattern on both sides. On the Mk3, the disc side is laced 3-cross, because of its smaller hub diameter (and longer spokes), while the drive side is laced 2-cross. The Mk3 front wheel is laced 3-cross on both sides. Different head angles, of course, on each side to allow for the dish.

I've built up road-racing bicycle wheels using 4-cross lacing, and it seemed to produce a strong wheel, and looked cool. I've never seen this type of lacing used on a motorcycle.
 
I did my wheels like Gary said. Here's a pic as the wheel came off the bike.

Wheelbuilding 102 for Dummies


Here's how it turned out. Believe it or not, the first time I laced it up I had the pattern backwards. It fit perfectly.

Wheelbuilding 102 for Dummies


Both were drum so minimal offset, but I had measured them to get them back like original. Not a problem, but I adjusted them a bit when I put them on the bike.

Dave
69S
 
swooshdave said:
T95 said:
More reading material If you happen to be looking for a detailed article on wheel building!
http://www.nocnsw.org.au/spokes.html
Click to expand...

Great stuff... if it had pictures. :mrgreen:

I'll read it all tonite.
Click to expand...

Dave,
This article does a better job of explaining some of the common wheel building terminology. I can't say I agree with everything he says. Actually the more I look at the info for wheel building I believe the standard two cross pattern found on our stock wheels are much simpler to lace than the majority of common bicycle wheel patterns. With the two cross you dont have the hassle of weaving the spokes.
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bicycles ... /index.htm
I'll post this to show the possibilities with spoke patterns. It looks like he builds with the outer spokes trailing or counter clockwise. Regardless, if you see the beauty in a spoked wheel then this is filled with pure Eye Candy !
http://www.hdwheels.com/Gallery.htm
 
You don't have to weave the spokes whatever the pattern on motorcycle wheels. that is done on bicycle wheels to 1- make a stronger wheel and 2- because the spokes are more flexible it is possible and 3- the spokes end up on a single plane at the rim (99% of bicycle wheels). Most motorcycle wheels can't be weaved because the spokes are too stiff.

When I ordered my rims and spokes for what I am building now, I asked Bucchanan's for a cross 3 pattern on both wheels but they told me it was not necessary even with the larger rims I was using. On a bike I built a long time ago, I made my back wheel from a Kawasaki 900 front hub, at the time I asked and they did it for me a cross 3 pattern from that spool hub to an 18" rim. That wheel was very stiff and it would probably have become loose with a cross 2 pattern. In the old days of huge drum brakes, I saw some wheels with a cross 0 pattern when the drum almost filled the whole area inside the rim.

Jean
 
CNW's prices now match Buchanans so there's no advantage ordering from CNW (unless you have them do the upgrades to the hubs).

I'm now leaning towards Steadfast as they have a great price on the rims, although the spoke prices are slightly higher than Buchanans. I have an email into them for more info on the spoke pricing.

Worse case is rims from Steadfast and spokes from Buchanans. I might come out slightly ahead with even with the additional shipping costs.

All of this is conjecture until Uncle Sam gets done doing some math. :mrgreen:
 
Jeandr said:
In the old days of huge drum brakes, I saw some wheels with a cross 0 pattern when the drum almost filled the whole area inside the rim.

Jean
Click to expand...

Wheelbuilding 102 for Dummies


Even this 8-shoe brake seems to have some cross patterns. Not sure if you can get bigger than this. If you can I'm not sure I want to see it.
 
Ugh, not possible to just go around evening up spoke tension, even hand snug and expect any centering to matter.

1. side to side centering is more important than roundness centering

2. spokes should be tighter than any impact wheel may encounter, basically tight as possible.

3. each similar spoke row should have similar tension tone, but can just go around tensioning to tone w/o watching dial gauge and only done as last nip up fine tune.

4. the more spoke crossings the better and more tangent than radial angled spoke the better. Crosses behind hub and crossing sighted through the opposite set count on our narrow rims as mostly in same plane compared to cars or chopper size.

5. lacing pattern mostly limited to the rim hole angles.

6. Commando front disc are the strangest toughest ever mass produced to lace and Bucannan can not supply Al rim drilled at the angles Norton did so spokes will be in bent bind once all done up right. Bucannan's and others I checked with assured me this was fine to fly on. One, Ben English in NY, ran a Norton shop and did many wheels back then and currently.
 
Earlier on this thread I posted that, while I had built up road-racing bicycle wheels using a 4-cross pattern, I had never seen this pattern used on motorcycles. Well, as I often have to admit on this forum, I stand corrected. Below is a photo that appears in the current American Iron magazine, a Harley-focused publication.

Wheelbuilding 102 for Dummies


This wheel, as best I can tell, is laced in a 4-cross pattern. In a triumph of form-over-function, it also displays a novel go-fast feature: no front brake.
 
rick in seattle said:
Earlier on this thread I posted that, while I had built up road-racing bicycle wheels using a 4-cross pattern, I had never seen this pattern used on motorcycles. Well, as I often have to admit on this forum, I stand corrected. Below is a photo that appears in the current American Iron magazine, a Harley-focused publication.

This wheel, as best I can tell, is laced in a 4-cross pattern. In a triumph of form-over-function, it also displays a novel go-fast feature: no front brake.
Click to expand...

Isn't it too hard to tell from an angle?
 
It's hard to see, but not too hard to see. It's a bit easier to see on the original photo. Another clue is the extreme angle that the spokes leave the hub; they're nearly tangential. 3-cross spokes come off at a less severe, more radial angle. Good looking hub.
 
rick in seattle said:
It's hard to see, but not too hard to see. It's a bit easier to see on the original photo. Another clue is the extreme angle that the spokes leave the hub; they're nearly tangential. 3-cross spokes come off at a less severe, more radial angle. Good looking hub.
Click to expand...

Now that I look more carefully I can see that. I don't think you need to be corrected, any statement made always has the "Harley clause" because if anything has ever been done to a bike that was unusual or plain stupid... it's been on a Harley custom. 8)
 
pelican said:
for my mk3 wheels final inspection
trueness
spoke tension- front 55-65"/lbs brake side, 20-30"/lbs non brake side (keep in mind thicker gage spokes than stock)
rear 45-55"/lbs brake side, 25-35"/lbs drive side
nipple to spoke alignment
spoke to hub fitment
rim offset
hub true to bearing mount
fit and finish
and of course does everything match the work order


Who knows if they actually check everything, but it made me feel better getting the checklist :lol:
Click to expand...


I know this is a little behind in the conversation but winter and work have both been kicking my butt lately so I am catching up. I want to clarify in case anybody missed it that those are INCH pounds! Now back to the regular programming...
 
Rims and spokes ordered today from Buchanan's. I got the WM3 Excel Shouldered rims and the stainless spokes with the nickel plated nipples.

Pre-shipping cost was $620.80.

Hopefully they will be here in about a week. Then the fun starts!
 
swooshdave said:
Rims and spokes ordered today from Buchanan's. I got the WM3 Excel Shouldered rims and the stainless spokes with the nickel plated nipples.

Pre-shipping cost was $620.80.

Hopefully they will be here in about a week. Then the fun starts!
Click to expand...


That sounds about right. Both sets I have built cost around $1000 built. Rims, spokes, used hubs, tires, tubes, buildup and tire mounting. They sure do look nice, eaven if the price hurts.

Wheelbuilding 102 for Dummies
 
I have the tires so the next expenses will be rim tape, tubes and mounting. I don't want to do it myself as I don't trust myself not to mar the aluminum.

Also if I get stuck with the truing I may need to pay someone to finalize it.

As you guys expect I'll try to document the wheelbuilding as best I can.
 
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