What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

Bevelheadmhr said:
Do those of you with doubts about TVS Norton, do you think that they will not release a range of new bikes in November, to be gin sales in early 2025? I expect the new Commandos will be slightly better and more expensive than the Triumph T120 range. No doubt water cooled, 6 speed, to be sold globally. Along with a cheaper middle weight single or twin. The MD has stated that the current 961 and V4s will not have a future. I'll be keeping my TVS 961, and depending on looks, specs and price, may possibly consider adding the new version as well.
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We’re only going on what’s happened thus far.

The crying wolf analogy sums it up.

If there is a wolf this November… then great.
 
John Bloor bought Triumph in 1983, it took until 1991 for a new factory and the first new Triumphs to be built. Assuming TVS launch their new range for sale in early 2025, made in a new factory, then I'd say they are doing ok. TVS haven't invested £150 million, with more to come, to just walk away and fail.
 
BritTwit said:
Same here, unfortunately.
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Not for me thanks, can’t be bothered with another experimental motorcycle..I love my 961 to bits but without the help or services of Stu it probably would have been given the length test..Contacted TVS over a week ago about buying a rear hugger in carbon and I am still waiting..there are ways around this problem and I will not be beaten but for new owners this seems to me to be a big problem..no parts bike is off the road.
 
This is indeed ‘well trodden ground’ (here) and views entrenched - no one’s for changing - bad news is generally louder/more readilly shared. It’s just human nature.

To my mind, Norton’s reputation was trashed at Donnington Hall (not Solihull) - Norton Birmingham has been trying to rebuild it ever since. Some like their approach, others not. Some believe they’ve achieved current status in an acceptable time frame, others, that they’ve been painfully slow. Mistakes have been made - inevitable I guess.

The crux for most is the communication of future intent, including new models. Some are (very) frustrated believing Norton should release early detail to build interest. Norton has held back that detail to try and achieve the same.

I suspect also, Norton’s fear was releasing information before direction was confirmed - they’ve made that mistake before. And, that they would risk getting the market excited about models before they had the export network in place to deliver them - guaranteed to frustrate the market.

It’s a matter of timing and it’s time that will tell which approach was right. My money’s on the multinational motorcycle manufacturer. For those that believe there’s never been (or going to be) any new bikes from Solihull it’s likely to be ‘egg on face’! But that’s ok - we’ve all been there! Seem to remember saying I’d eat my hat if Norton didn’t release the Atlas!

Mi2P - may be wrong. Often am😅!​
 
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Other makes don't release details of new bikes months before their official launch, hence all those 'spy' shots of heavily disguised bikes taken during road testing. The big reveal is usually at EICMA or sometimes the Tokyo show. In Norton's case it'll be at the UK Live bike show in November.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
This is indeed ‘well trodden ground’ (here) and views entrenched - no one’s for changing - bad news is generally louder/more readilly shared. It’s just human nature.

To my mind, Norton’s reputation was trashed at Donnington Hall (not Solihull) - Norton Birmingham has been trying to rebuild it ever since. Some like their approach, others not. Some believe they’ve achieved current status in an acceptable time frame, others, that they’ve been painfully slow. Mistakes have been made - inevitable I guess.

The crux for most is the communication of future intent, including new models. Some are (very) frustrated believing Norton should release early detail to build interest. Norton has held back that detail to try and achieve the same.

I suspect also, Norton’s fear was releasing information before direction was confirmed - they’ve made that mistake before. And, that they would risk getting the market excited about models before they had the export network in place to deliver them - guaranteed to frustrate the market.

It’s a matter of timing and it’s time that will tell which approach was right. My money’s on the multinational motorcycle manufacturer. For those that believe there’s never been (or going to be) any new bikes from Solihull it’s likely to be ‘egg on face’! But that’s ok - we’ve all been there! Seem to remember saying I’d eat my hat if Norton didn’t release the Atlas!

Mi2P - may be wrong. Often am😅!​
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Nobody’s saying new bikes aren’t in the making.
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
Do those of you with doubts about TVS Norton, do you think that they will not release a range of new bikes in November, to be gin sales in early 2025? I expect the new Commandos will be slightly better and more expensive than the Triumph T120 range. No doubt water cooled, 6 speed, to be sold globally. Along with a cheaper middle weight single or twin. The MD has stated that the current 961 and V4s will not have a future. I'll be keeping my TVS 961, and depending on looks, specs and price, may possibly consider adding the new version as well.
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When you say “slightly better and more expensive” what exactly do you mean?
The Commando 961 is way more expensive and nowhere near as good performing as the T120.

I hope you TVS 961 owners don’t have the same fate of spare parts in the near future as us Donington suckers.
 
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Bevelheadmhr said:
Other makes don't release details of new bikes months before their official launch, hence all those 'spy' shots of heavily disguised bikes taken during road testing. The big reveal is usually at EICMA or sometimes the Tokyo show. In Norton's case it'll be at the UK Live bike show in November.
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Maybe a different scenario with other established marques Bevelhead. Those spy shots are generally of the next iteration of an existing bike, or of a new bike generally expected. The new variant/model every year scenario.

Norton were being re-established as a marque and devotees were/are clambering for information - an historical marque with lots of ‘dyed in the wool’ followers that had just experienced the debacle at Donington.

Not knowing which direction Norton were heading or having any clue of potential models types until relatively recently led to frustration for some - including myself. Different degrees of course.
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Maybe a different scenario with other established marques Bevelhead. Those spy shots are generally of the next iteration of an existing bike, or of a new bike generally expected. The new variant/model every year scenario.

Norton were being re-established as a marque and devotees were/are clambering for information - an historical marque with lots of ‘dyed in the wool’ followers that had just experienced the debacle at Donington.

Not knowing which direction Norton were heading or having any clue of potential models types until relatively recently led to frustration for some - including myself. Different degrees of course.
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My point was the lack of spares not the lack of information about new bikes.
The new bikes will come, but the spares aren’t. As an old friend once said, a bike that can’t go isn’t worth a f@?k.
 
MAK said:
My point was the lack of spares not the lack of information about new bikes.
The new bikes will come, but the spares aren’t. As an old friend once said, a bike that can’t go isn’t worth a f@?k.
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Yep, different subject MAK. You say you contacted TVS over a week ago. Do you mean the factory or one of the dealers?

The system changed some months ago such that all spares requests are to be directed through a dealer.
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Yep, different subject MAK. You say you contacted TVS over a week ago. Do you mean the factory or one of the dealers?

The system changed some months ago such that all spares requests are to be directed through a dealer.
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I contacted both but the outcome is the same,no parts.
TVS told me quite specifically that they no longer deal with customers and you have to use your dealer!! My dealer has not got access to Norton’s computer regarding spares. So, catch 22.
 
MAK said:
I contacted both but the outcome is the same,no parts.
TVS told me quite specifically that they no longer deal with customers and you have to use your dealer!! My dealer has not got access to Norton’s computer regarding spares. So, catch 22.
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Sounds like shite from whichever dealer you’re talking to MAK - push your spares request through Judd. They seem to be processing the lions share of the parts requests.
 
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Voodooo said:
When you say “slightly better and more expensive” what exactly do you mean?
The Commando 961 is way more expensive and nowhere near as good performing as the T120.

I hope you TVS 961 owners don’t have the same fate of spare parts in the near future as us Donington suckers.
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The standard T120 makes 79bhp and weighs 236kg, not much different from a 961, while the high power models such as the Thruxton make a little over 100bhp. Water cooled, six speed box and lots of electronics. The TVS 961 is essentially the same bike that was first designed more than 15 years ago. I suggest the new Commandos will have to compete with the T120 range. Therefore they will either have a similar spec/price, or a slightly higher spec and price. Given the smaller numbers Norton will be making, and in the UK, I think the latter option is more likely. So better suspension, a bit more power, all the latest electronics, and hopefully a better looking bike than the T120.

As far as future spares are concerned for the TVS 961s, every new bike they build is another potential donor, as every year a few will be crashed/broken for spares. While the more TVS make the more spares they will need to stock going into the future.

It must be frustrating trying to get parts for the Donnington bikes, but given the small numbers being made, I'm not surprised the TVS give priority to their own customers and production needs. In time, when the 961 is out of production, I wouldn't be surprised if Norton move parts support to a third party company, similar to Hitchcocks for RE and David Silver for Honda.
 
Voodooo said:
I’m guessing Norton will restore the model names.
Combat
Atlas
International
Etc.
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I hope you're right, but given all the PC, wokeism around these days, there could be folks in Norton's product marketing dept who find some of those names too toxic-ly masculine for today's clientele.

"Commando" is too aggressive - maybe "Caballero" would be better and less harmful to the minds of snowflakes.
"Combat" has terrible connotations of death and destruction, perhaps "Cotillion" would be more pleasant.
 
BritTwit said:
I hope you're right, but given all the PC, wokeism around these days, there could be folks in Norton's product marketing dept who find some of those names too toxic-ly masculine for today's clientele.

"Commando" is too aggressive - maybe "Caballero" would be better and less harmful to the minds of snowflakes.
"Combat" has terrible connotations of death and destruction, perhaps "Cotillion" would be more pleasant.
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hopefully they will avoid the Norton Nightmare……
 
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