What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

comet said:
I know I'll regret this which is why I try to avoid these exchanges, but I've done it now, although I'll make this my last on this thread so you can have the final word.

"No where was I argumentative with 900RS"

Your comment:
"..... I also think you’re just here to stink up the air like you are sour about something towards the Norton brand or perhaps Stuart himself." Somewhat ironic given your recent postings.

"No where was I ride with SCS-delta. I asked a legitimate question."

Ok, if you think that's an appropriate way to welcome a potentially useful contributor to the forum. I was referring to more reasonable people who would have understood that suppliers contracted to Norton would likely be restricted from interacting publicly with Norton customers, which is why you won't see the other suppliers on here.

"As far as NortonDominator2020. Yes.
I admit I was. He’s a fucking idiot. We all tried to help him and he was always rude and no matter how many of us tried to help, he always had the answers."

I agree, although it was primarily yourself who contributed to the name calling and deterioration of the exchange. It takes two to tango and you seem to be a willing partner.

"Don’t be cowardly, just call my name out Comet"

I didn't consider it necessary to include your moniker as I felt it was obvious who I was referring to, which is part of the point here.
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Just as this thread seems to be cooling down… nice one !

I‘m impressed you kept so many detailed anti Voodooo notes Comet.

However I completely disagree.

900RS came to this site and did nothing except ridicule the 961 and talk up Triumphs. Clearly the 961 wasn’t for him, which is fine, but joining a dedicated one make forum to only post criticisms of the bikes is obviously none value adding and must be the epitome of ‘trolling’.

NortonDominator2020 upset everyone who conversed with him, especially those giving advice. He even called Stu a lair (in other words) during the whole Titanium fastener saga.

So to single any one person out for responding to either of these individuals is highly misrepresentative of what was actually going on at the time. You could extract snippets / comments from any one of half a dozen people and draw the same conclusions.
 
The future of Norton Solihull is not in the hands of conversations on this forum.

Its in the hands of the board of TVS Motors Company Limited first and shareholders view of the board.

They are a company that has expanded rapidly, not just by organic growth but also by acquisition. They are not really a profitable company or a share to be bought based on dividend pay-outs, which are currently at 0.5% of share value.

They buy other related companies on a regular basis, add the turnover to their own which combined with the rapid growth of small motorcycle sales in its market shows a good balance sheet.

The share price is doing very well on this basis, up some 50% this year.

This is an analyst's view

Strengths​

  • Its core activity has a significant growth potential and sales are expected to surge, according to Standard & Poor's' forecast. Indeed, those may increase by 53% by 2026.
  • The earnings growth currently anticipated by analysts for the coming years is particularly strong.

Weaknesses​

  • The company's valuation in terms of earnings multiples is rather high. Indeed, the firm is getting paid 37.2 times its estimated earnings per share for the ongoing year.
  • In relation to the value of its tangible assets, the company's valuation appears relatively high.
  • The company is highly valued given the cash flows generated by its activity.
  • The firm pays small or no dividend to shareholders. For that reason, it is not a yield company.

The share price is doing well based on a seemingly virtuous circle of increasing sales and acquisition's which complement this not by profitability but positive cashflow.

This momentum will be lost if the sales flatten or acquisitions fail to add to the sales and instead drain cash.

So the question is how does Norton fit into this company, do TVS and its shareholders have the patience to wait nearly a decade for the sales/cashflow numbers to come through or is the statement that it will wait 8 quarters more accurate.

Time to keep an eye on the TVS share price and analysts buy or sell opinions.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
Just as this thread seems to be cooling down… nice one !

I‘m impressed you kept so many detailed anti Voodooo notes Comet.

However I completely disagree.

900RS came to this site and did nothing except ridicule the 961 and talk up Triumphs. Clearly the 961 wasn’t for him, which is fine, but joining a dedicated one make forum to only post criticisms of the bikes is obviously none value adding and must be the epitome of ‘trolling’.

NortonDominator2020 upset everyone who conversed with him, especially those giving advice. He even called Stu a lair (in other words) during the whole Titanium fastener saga.

So to single any one person out for responding to either of these individuals is highly misrepresentative of what was actually going on at the time. You could extract snippets / comments from any one of half a dozen people and draw the same conclusions.
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Nah, ND2020 is OK.....he's just a fiery Eastern European. I'm used to that with my missus 🤣
 
Fast Eddie said:
Just as this thread seems to be cooling down… nice one !

I‘m impressed you kept so many detailed anti Voodooo notes Comet.

However I completely disagree.

900RS came to this site and did nothing except ridicule the 961 and talk up Triumphs. Clearly the 961 wasn’t for him, which is fine, but joining a dedicated one make forum to only post criticisms of the bikes is obviously none value adding and must be the epitome of ‘trolling’.

NortonDominator2020 upset everyone who conversed with him, especially those giving advice. He even called Stu a lair (in other words) during the whole Titanium fastener saga.

So to single any one person out for responding to either of these individuals is highly misrepresentative of what was actually going on at the time. You could extract snippets / comments from any one of half a dozen people and draw the same conclusions.
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So, just to be clear, in the spirit of trying to ‘raise our game’ FE - everything Comet had to say is to be discounted right?
 
Folks, this thread has become more about agreeing to disagree, than What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...
Remember what happened to the previous agree to disagree thread?

I think CG was correct back on post 438, lets close this thread down.
And let's continue to be opinionated, but not so argumentative.
Everyone has the right to express an opinion, even if they are certain it's fact.
I like to read the views of others, even if they differ from my own.
We should keep the discourse respectful, humor, or humour aside.:p
 
BritTwit said:
I like to read the views of others, even if they differ from my own.
We should keep the discourse respectful, humor, or humour aside.:p
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Yes!

Not the fact that different opinions are aired (or even disagreements - which can still be respectful) it is the manner in which these are aired.

Any number of these threads with open ridicule, abuse, vitriol and language that is so often shown here would be shut down immediately on any other social media site.

Somehow this place has become the ‘wild west’ - say what you like to whom you like in any manner you choose. Since when was that acceptable to anyone?

Keep explaining it away with the context in which it was written and it will just re-emerge, or worsen.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
I'll end up like Andy from Shawshank Redemption, I'll have to write a letter a week....maybe even two 🤣
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Might the issue be (if it’s not just a delay) that you are ordering a V4 part Stu? The agreement we have in place is for parts supply for the 961.

Not sure why that would be the case but it’s possible I suppose.
 
I remember not long before Norton canned these bikes, saying that I’d eat my hat if they didn’t introduce them - luckily I don’t own one.

I’ve read several articles where various Norton personalities have been asked about the Atlas range, given its obvious appeal. They’ve always been a little cagey with the response (not unusual of course). Gladwell used the term shelved, ‘for now’ - from memory.

Agree that it could be a smart move although I’m not sure given the passage of time and changed economic circumstances that Norton could build it for the money Garner was quoting - with Ohlins and Brembo front and back and a not insubstantial amount of bling. Second look, maybe not Ohlins - badged Roadholder so could be anything - look decent though.

Think Stu rode one and didn’t think much of it though - as you say FE, it probably wasn’t fully developed.

This guy goes through it pretty thoroughly. He’s obviously very keen.

 
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I agree with everyone about the Atlas Scrambler style wise an popularity of Scrambler/ADV bikes with my generation you think that would be a better product to market than an electric superbike (ref to someone's post earlier about Norton developing one)

Who knows the trademarks Norton have registered Ranger, Atlas Scrambler and Norton Roadholder in 22' might be a glimmer of hope.

Styling wise it wouldn't have taken much to have made it look on point with a front adv style fairing to.

Ignore the rubbish quality ancient phone. Pic from when they showed it at Motorcycle Live.
What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

If Norton are gonna insist on electric something based on the old flat tankers could be cool. I've seen a few pictures floating about of Enfields electric Himalayan that's being developed.

What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

I'd love to see a longstroke single but who knows what Norton are thinking it's weird having been such a ardent Norton fan to find myself looking at different brands something a while ago I wouldn't have thought of at the moment the old 500 uce Enfields have my attention seeing no one makes a longstroke 500 any more.
 
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Looks like the ties with BMW get stronger, the latest director of many that they have is german and also a director of BMW India.
 
Talking about the EV Market segment looks like Royal Enfield just launched the Concept for the Him-E electric motorcycle's arn't my thing at all but it's interesting to see the difference in marketing approach.

23:43 mins in


Lot's of talk about pure riding experience of electric motorcycling.

So that's Triumph and RE coming out with EV concepts of usable electric bikes,

As dad just said (we are both watching it at the moment) Maybe Norton might be watching the dust settle then announce something.) One can hope.

Not a fan of the New RE Himalayan, compared to the old 410 even though mine was problematic an it seems to be alot of people echoing that with added tech on it water cooling etc, I know I've said it before love to see Norton do a higher end Longstroke single as that'd really differentiate the brand from the other offerings an would really play into the heritage well.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
I agree with him, I think it’s a great shame they don’t produce these models. They’d be huge sellers, they'd broaden their customer base, they’d attract younger buyers to the marque, etc.

But I think the reasons for not manufacturing them are perhaps bigger than he realises. My belief is there’s no manufacturing basis for them, no tooling, no supply chain established, no finalised design, etc. The fact that the Chinese already make the engine does offset some of this argument though…
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An open letter to TVS Norton, "Dear Sir, if you have a Nomad or Atlas model gathering dust in a dark corner of the factory I would like to put myself forward as a test / development rider . I will ride all year round in all weathers and conditions to give a fair and balanced report on the performance and rideability of the machine. You will get the bike back in perfect condition, and should any spares be needed during this twelve months test then we're both screwed !. Looking forward to your reply....................yours in anticipation Pete Banks."
 
peebee said:
An open letter to TVS Norton, "Dear Sir, if you have a Nomad or Atlas model gathering dust in a dark corner of the factory I would like to put myself forward as a test / development rider . I will ride all year round in all weathers and conditions to give a fair and balanced report on the performance and rideability of the machine. You will get the bike back in perfect condition, and should any spares be needed during this twelve months test then we're both screwed !. Looking forward to your reply....................yours in anticipation Pete Banks."
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The small liter market is already filled with bikes. A not-known brand trying to sell is not going to work. Harley tried small liter bikes and after a few years, they couldn't give them away. Also, Norton has already said they want to be "boutique" so a small liter is not the way. I said it long ago TVS/Norton will be in the electric market using the Norton name. Also, TVS isn't going to compete with one of its largest partners in BMW.
 
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