What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

Thanks for the article.
I can understand what they mean by their point with the Honda, but oftentimes I have driven or ridden something which got bad press and personally found it to be awesome. Usually, these are cars or bikes with some officially unsurmountable fault which you personally either don´t mind or actually value as a virtue. Then it completely changes the picture.
Imagine the reviews if the 961 was tested around the world today. Probably wouldn´t end too well...for now.
What then happens in another 20 - 30 years later is that the same publication declares the previously ridiculed product as an all-time-great classic, never to be repeated and worth hundreds of thousands or millions today. Many examples come to mind, especially with cars as I have been more deeply involved with them for a long time and don´t have the same history yet with motorcycles.
The point to myself being, I would have to ride it myself and form my own opinion. Don´t listen to anybody.

I just saw an interview between Alan Cathcart and the departing CEO of BMW Motorrad. TVS is making the CE02 electric scooter for BMW.
Up our alley, one of the questions was this:
Cathcart:
Your Indian partner TVS is heavily investing in an E-superbike for its Norton brand to be made in England. Are you cooperating with them in this project, or are they working with you on an e-bike for BMW?
BMW:
No, we are not working together on this, or not just yet.

So, as for our discussion above, it seems that here we have a clue for one of the upcoming Nortons - an e-superbike...

Voodooo said:

No Stephen. I change it because you’re not worth it. I proven my point and deleted my last post because you only see your views as the only way.

ANYTIME anyone says anything against Norton, ANYTIME anyone says something they don’t like about a Norton bike, you literally have a meltdown.

I stand by my statement that you are way too biased.

Myself and others posted their opinions about the V4 bikes and you cannot handle it. You’re entitled to your opinions, but you cannot stand when someone disagrees with you.

I’ve asked you numerous times to block me, I’ll admit I can’t stand you. You’re annoying as FUCK and I know I annoy you too.

You blame me for arguing with you all the time, but guess what? Take some of that blame yourself because you’re half the problem. Block me!

This will help clean up this mess on the forum. Take some ownership in mudding the waters!

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If it hasn't already; I suspect the interaction between you pair is going to ruin this site.

Gojuu said:

If it hasn't already; I suspect the interaction between you pair is going to ruin this site.

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With respect Gj, maybe you could outline to me just what was written at #413 that resulted in those extreme responeses - the ones you can read (and that which you no longer can). Genuine question.

My honest opinion, with neutral balanced language.

As stated - not interested in the other shit!

Stephen_Spencer said:

With respect Gj, maybe you could outline to me just what was written at #413 that resulted in those extreme responeses - the ones you can read (and that which you no longer can). Genuine question.

My honest opinion, with neutral balanced language.

As stated - not interested in the other shit!

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Dude, he’s talking about the overall ‘interaction’.

Taking sides, picking at the scab, dissecting what was said, is all the opposite to his point (as I understand it at least).

However, as counterbalance to Gj’s point, the arguing does make up 90% of the traffic on this forum, so at least it’s keeping things lively !

Motorcycles age as fast as mobile phones nowadays. The V4 was initially first shown to the public in the same year that the iPhone 7 was released. The 961 is impervious to this aging process as its purposefully designed to tug on the nostalgia heart strings. For me the V4SS is the better buy than the re-release, it now has such a back drop story to it, that if I had the cash I'd 100% have one in my little collection....the only way I'd have the cash though is to sell something, and as Ive not sold a motorcycle since 1998, that's unlikely to happen any time soon.

This thread has gone on for quite a while now, it's all guess work and opinions that lead to squabbling. It's easy to take things out of context on forums.....I often have to rewrite some of what I've posted, as my dry British humour can easily be taken the wrong way.
The brunt of it all is we all have our own ideas of how Norton should be run, but in the grand scheme of things, none of us are multi billion pound companies....so our opinions mean diddly squat. Norton will eventually succeed, as long as its parent company throw enough money at it.....everything succeeds if you chuck enough money at it. I'm still a fan of the name, Norton.....but I'm no longer a fan of the current brand. That's just me though. I was previously flying the Norton flag as high as I could, even defending them against arm chair experts on social media. But now, due to a very small minority of lower level management based at Solihull, I've taken down that flag and lobbed it in the bin. This is my own personal grudge, so you can always expect a slightly biased opinion when ever I write about the company now. But, I still thank them, sincerely, for not accepting Donington bikes into their service workshop...that decision has provided me with a excellent leg up with starting out in business with a platform that I whole heartedly enjoy.

Fast Eddie said:

Dude, he’s talking about the overall ‘interaction’.

Taking sides, picking at the scab, dissecting what was said, is all the opposite to his point (as I understand it at least).

However, as counterbalance to Gj’s point, the arguing does make up 90% of the traffic on this forum, so at least it’s keeping things lively !

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The overall interaction is a difficulty - maybe important to try and resolve it - noting though the helpful expansion of Gj’s point, about ‘my involvement’.

Almost always, during one of the usual ‘rants’ it will be stated that I am ‘entitled to my opinion’, before it (and often myself) is assassinated. I’m pretty resilient, but hey - is that stuff acceptable to anyone?

I try pretty hard to ensure that the language/content I post is balanced (as I see it) for this very reason. Not something others (needs to) give a second thought to. #413 was no different - I believe every word that I write - it is my opinion - I’m think I’m entitled to it.

I like this format, unlike FB you get the opportunity to properly exchange views. And I like to be ‘wordy’ as we know ! I posted a Motobob video to kick off a bit of discussion about the V4CR cos it had gone quiet - I enjoy the exchanges and the opinions; multiple were given which is great.

I then put my own forward. I was not ‘treading all over others opinions’ (or similar) as was originally posted - along with the usual stuff. Nor was I ‘picking at a scab or dissecting’ what was said by others - If it appears that way then I apologise to those involved - but that was/is not my intention. They are my honest opinions.

If I do ‘take a side’, which I’ve admitted to several times, it is against grindingly negative perpetual commentary. Taking virtually every aspect of Norton/TVS/bikes and reducing it to an absolute negative. Most of it with no basis in fact. There is little (read no) balanced narrative/perspective.

So occasionally, I add my thoughts in the hope of including some perspective - at least partly for anybody else that might be reading. Again, these are my genuine opinions/thoughts - often in the absence of information. Of course that puts me on the periphery - not something I worry about.

What I do worry about is how much this negative content, which went beyond the ridiculous some months ago, impacts on prospective buyers and on Nortons attempt to build a successful business. I know I’m not on my own there.

This is the premier Modern Norton site. It gets a lots of enthusiast traffic and threads routinely pop up when ‘anybody’ googles about Norton/TVS/Gladwell etc.

It is my honest belief that it is not the occasional testy exchange that is ruining this site (the popcorn crew love it as FE says) it is the total lack of balanced commentary in favour of the overwhelmingly negative.

Norton enthusiasts, 961 owners (prospective and current) do not want to hear their favourite marque/bike denigrated to such an extent by a very small group of people who, if honest, might admit to having a skewed lens and/or a significant axe to grind.

This I believe is also the principle reason our threads attract so little participation. If another reason is because of these exchanges then again, I apologise for my part.

My thoughts only.

I think keyboards fitted with breathalysers would like be a good start.

Fast Eddie said:

Forgive me, I wasn’t clear enough in post #423. I’ll try again:

What I meant was that your reply to Gj was asking him to go back and re-read a prior post that you had issues with, you wanted him to do this so he would see how wrong it was, and how right you were. To do this you wanted him to go back and immerse himself in the very squabble that he was trying to quell !

Just seemed kinda ironic to me.

Thats all.

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Whilst you also took the oportunity to add your thoughts/interpretation to what GJ might have been referring to (‘as you understand it’). You know, my taking sides - picking at scabs - discecting !!

Guess we’re all part of the problem right?

Fast Eddie said:

We are, there’s no denying that ! As has been explained a gazillion times before, it takes two (at least) to tango.

There’s a huge irony here tho… in your quest to be the bringer of balance, the side of positivity, you’re inadvertently drawing out the very grinding negativity you refer to.

Most such grinding negativity is comments that have been posted in arguments with you. That’s how arguments work, each side repeats itself louder and more strongly with each ping of the pong. And I speak from experience !

So yes, we are all part of the problem.

IMO Voodoo and you should ignore each other using the ignore function. Actually if we genuinely wish to end the cycle described above this applies to a few people. Obviously I’m one of them, but I’m hanging in and trying not too, as generally speaking I don‘t like doing it, cos if everybody who disagreed with each other did it, there be no discussion anymore. Ergo no forum.

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Agreed.

But a point made and a point answered - several times! The vast majority of the grinding negativity does not come from occasional interaction with me - that is patently not true. And you know that.

Read the threads FE. Happy to point as many of these out as you like via PM.

Stephen_Spencer said:

Agreed.

But a point made and a point answered - several times! The vast majority of the grinding negativity does not come from occasional interaction with me - that is patently not true. And you know that.

Read the threads FE. Happy to point as many of these out as you like via PM.

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I disagree.

I think that people make their points (ie negative) and that’s where they’d stay. And there’s nothing wrong with that in the slightest.

But they live on and grow stronger in the ensuing and ongoing arguments. And that’s the problem.

I have read the threads. I have been in the threads. More than happy for you to point out as many as you wish to via PM.

Fast Eddie said:

I disagree.

I think that people make their points (ie negative) and that’s where they’d stay. And there’s nothing wrong with that in the slightest.

But they live on and grow stronger in the ensuing and ongoing arguments. And that’s the problem.

I have read the threads. I have been in the threads. More than happy for you to point out as many as you wish to via PM.

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There is something wrong with the continues negative commentary - for reasons outlined. That others have also highlighted.

The negativity is omnipresent FE. In every thread relating to Norton/TVS. The usual members engaging. Sometimes I join the conversation - I also step away for periods when I start looking differently at my own 961 due to this content.

Sometimes what I say is escalated to argument by the usual suspects, - it follows a predictable path. Which is how we got here!

The suggestion that ‘the problem’ of constant negativity is down to arguments with me is patently nonsense.

You guys are generating it in the first place and then raising argument from discussion, where it’s aired again. I’ve played my part but your inference that that is the core issue ‘the problem’ is disingenuous.

‘The problem’ IS the constant negative commentary. Which of course WE are adding to here.

Stephen_Spencer said:

The overall interaction is a difficulty - maybe important to try and resolve it - noting though the helpful expansion of Gj’s point, about ‘my involvement’.

Almost always, during one of the usual ‘rants’ it will be stated that I am ‘entitled to my opinion’, before it (and often myself) is assassinated. I’m pretty resilient, but hey - is that stuff acceptable to anyone?

I try pretty hard to ensure that the language/content I post is balanced (as I see it) for this very reason. Not something others (needs to) give a second thought to. #413 was no different - I believe every word that I write - it is my opinion - I’m think I’m entitled to it.

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Yes you are entitled to your opinion. As are everyone else. Negative or positive.
Problem is, you can’t handle when I post a negative word or comment about TVS Norton.
That’s not my problem. It’s just something you don’t like to hear.
I believe my opinions and what I say of them on whatever that topic may be at that time.
You’re entitled to your opinions as am I.

Stephen_Spencer said:

I like this format, unlike FB you get the opportunity to properly exchange views. And I like to be ‘wordy’ as we know ! I posted a Motobob video to kick off a bit of discussion about the V4CR cos it had gone quiet - I enjoy the exchanges and the opinions; multiple were given which is great.

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You didn’t enjoy the exchange of views, that’s why we’re here once again arguing.

Stephen_Spencer said:

I then put my own forward. I was not ‘treading all over others opinions’ (or similar) as was originally posted - along with the usual stuff. Nor was I ‘picking at a scab or dissecting’ what was said by others - If it appears that way then I apologise to those involved - but that was/is not my intention. They are my honest opinions.

If I do ‘take a side’, which I’ve admitted to several times, it is against grindingly negative perpetual commentary. Taking virtually every aspect of Norton/TVS/bikes and reducing it to an absolute negative. Most of it with no basis in fact. There is little (read no) balanced narrative/perspective.

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Stephen, this is a Norton forum. It’s mainly about Norton motorcycles. Just because this forums topic is about Norton motorcycles new and old, doesn’t mean we can’t discuss and debate other brands. It also doesn’t mean that everything Norton is good, or even bad.

Norton isn’t a perfect brand, no brand is perfect.
What drives me nuts, is you can’t stand it when someone disagrees with you about TVS.

Not once did I ever once say a Negative comment about NORTON, the 961, the V4 line up or any model of NORTON motorcycle ever.
You do not love the brand more than anyone else here.

We all want them to succeed, we all have different opinions and views as to how TVS is handling operations and none of us can change that.
My feelings changed because of all the bullshit run around I went through for months and years trying to get spare parts.
I’m not going to rehash it all. It’s known.
I didn’t lose anything. Especially when compared to people that lost money or their jobs and their future because of SG.
So my complaints mean nothing.

FE mentioned somewhere that for him the V4CR needs upright bars, carbon body work, some styling tweaks and to ditch the orange seat.
And to slash £10k off the price.

I then mentioned the Ducati Streetfighter to “him”. As I replied to him directly.
Knowing he’s also owned Ducatis.

Knowing this is a public open forum and everyone can read replies to each other. You did in fact also read my comment to FE.
Yourself stating…..
“For those that want to be the only swinging dick at that bikers haunt, as opposed to pulling up on yer Ducati street fighter to park beside another half a dozen!”

I admit, I bought both my Commando and Domi 961s because I like the fact of them being both beautiful (in my eyes) and unique. Especially in my area which is dominated by Harley’s.
I see your point about the V4CR at a bike meet being the only one there, but to say you’ll see 6 Ducati Street fighters made me laugh.

Stephen_Spencer said:

So occasionally, I add my thoughts in the hope of including some perspective - at least partly for anybody else that might be reading. Again, these are my genuine opinions/thoughts - often in the absence of information. Of course that puts me on the periphery - not something I worry about.

What I do worry about is how much this negative content, which went beyond the ridiculous some months ago, impacts on prospective buyers and on Nortons attempt to build a successful business. I know I’m not on my own there.

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Haaaaa haaaaaaa
You seem to think that by my negative feelings and comments of TVS will affect someone from buying a motorcycle from Norton and the future of TVS.
LAUGH MY FUCKING ASS OFF!

First of all, I post my comments and thoughts on this forum. I’m a nobody.
I am not a social media influencer.
Nor am I responsible for what someone spends their money on.
As I mentioned before, I NEVER once ever on this or any forum, ever said a bad or negative word about any motorcycle. EVER!
You can look up all my post and I challenge you to provide to me and the readers where I say or said anything bad about the Norton Motorcycle of any model.

Practically every member of this forum on this forum, has at one point in time complained about their 961 and its issues.
So I suppose to you, that 99% of this forum is the cause of why Norton isn’t selling bikes now?
But you make it seem like it’s because of my negative words of TVS. So funny.

To be 100% honest.
They need to know what the problems are and they need to hear customer complaints. That’s how products progress and improve.

Stephen_Spencer said:

This is the premier Modern Norton site. It gets a lots of enthusiast traffic and threads routinely pop up when ‘anybody’ googles about Norton/TVS/Gladwell etc.

It is my honest belief that it is not the occasional testy exchange that is ruining this site (the popcorn crew love it as FE says) it is the total lack of balanced commentary in favour of the overwhelmingly negative.

Norton enthusiasts, 961 owners (prospective and current) do not want to hear their favourite marque/bike denigrated to such an extent by a very small group of people who, if honest, might admit to having a skewed lens and/or a significant axe to grind.

This I believe is also the principle reason our threads attract so little participation. If another reason is because of these exchanges then again, I apologise for my part.

My thoughts only.

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Along with myself, you’re also to blame Stephen. This is why I said before, we needed to block each other. I can guarantee you, it will clean up the whole forum.

The reason why this 961 or modem Norton forum attracts so little participation, is because so little modern Nortons are out there.

As a person I know you’re a great guy and we have a common interest in motorcycles. But unfortunately, I just don’t feel a connection with you anymore.
We ram heads, we argue, we disagree, we don’t have fun, we don’t laugh.

Stephen, I think it’s best that we part ways.
I know, I know, it’ll be hard and I’ll miss all the times we had together, but it’s for the best and it’s best for the ones we love and care for. They’ll appreciate it and so will you as time goes on.

We’ll always have our memories and we can always come back and read old threads. Who knows, maybe that will make us laugh, or cry.

You take care of yourself Stephen Spencer!

Sometimes you need a really crooked road to get your head straight.

“MY THOUGHTS ONLY”

I try to avoid getting drawn into these online squabbles (wife's orders), but over the past few years I have observed a pattern of rudeness and personal attacks from the same member on this forum. Apart from the current spats with Stephen he has had similar encounters with 900RS, who dared to say he didn’t like the 961 after a test ride, and with the Israeli guy NortonDominator2020 which turned particularly childish. Ironically 900RS was accused of not liking SG. These are just the ones I recall.

I remember his welcoming message to SCS-Delta when they joined the forum in 2020 to offer support “Where were you guys when everyone was asking about the ecu months and years ago?” To any reasonable person the answer was obvious (how many other Norton suppliers do you see on the forum) and there was never any problem contacting SCS directly for support if you took the trouble.

I’ve seen similar from the same person on the FB group as well, although I note that his posts often subsequently disappear.

Stephen does go on a bit, but his posts are not personal attacks and the language is civil. The responses on the other hand are often made personal, sometimes with insults thrown in, and that’s a sure way to turn a debate into an argument.

I stopped subscribing to the NOC because of the repetitive negative posting about the 961 by one member on that site. Continually harping on about your own bad experience and negative feelings is just boring.

comet said:

I try to avoid getting drawn into these online squabbles (wife's orders), but over the past few years I have observed a pattern of rudeness and personal attacks from the same member on this forum. Apart from the current spats with Stephen he has had similar encounters with 900RS, who dared to say he didn’t like the 961 after a test ride, and with the Israeli guy NortonDominator2020 which turned particularly childish. Ironically 900RS was accused of not liking SG. These are just the ones I recall.

I remember his welcoming message to SCS-Delta when they joined the forum in 2020 to offer support “Where were you guys when everyone was asking about the ecu months and years ago?” To any reasonable person the answer was obvious (how many other Norton suppliers do you see on the forum) and there was never any problem contacting SCS directly for support if you took the trouble.

I’ve seen similar from the same person on the FB group as well, although I note that his posts often subsequently disappear.

Stephen does go on a bit, but his posts are not personal attacks and the language is civil. The responses on the other hand are often made personal, sometimes with insults thrown in, and that’s a sure way to turn a debate into an argument.

I stopped subscribing to the NOC because of the repetitive negative posting about the 961 by one member on that site. Continually harping on about your own bad experience and negative feelings is just boring.

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No where was I argumentative with 900RS
No where was I ride with SCS-delta. I asked a legitimate question.

As far as NortonDominator2020. Yes.
I admit I was. He’s a fucking idiot. We all tried to help him and he was always rude and no matter how many of us tried to help, he always had the answers.

Don’t be cowardly, just call my name out Comet

As far as Facebook, I’m nearly never on there. But ok.

This will be my last posting on this forum.

Flogging a dead horse is not commentary. I stand by what I said earlier. Limit replies to a few sentences unless a technical discussion and who has the bigger crankshaft isn't technical.

I think this thread has run its course anyway as we still don't have any idea "whats happening at TVS/Norton" and we are so off-topic it's not even funny.


I say lock it and move on

City Garage said:

Flogging a dead horse is not commentary. I stand by what I said earlier. Limit replies to a few sentences unless a technical discussion and who has the bigger crankshaft isn't technical.

I think this thread has run its course anyway as we still don't have any idea "whats happening at TVS/Norton" and we are so off-topic it's not even funny.


I say lock it and move on

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I second that.

No need for anyone to leave the site, or block anybody else in my opinion - everyone adds value; Voodooo has helped me several times with technical input for example, which I have not forgotten.

I’m obviously part of the problem. I’ll shorten my responses as suggested and try to adjust my content further. I’d ask that conversation/opinions are kept within the discussion space.

This forum is a fantastic resource. I suppose we are the custodians. I think it does influence others, so what we say matters. I for one am gonna try and raise my game.

See,.……..look how short that one was!

Stephen_Spencer said:

No need for anyone to leave the site, or block anybody else in my opinion - everyone adds value; Voodooo has helped me several times with technical input for example, which I have not forgotten.

I’m obviously part of the problem. I’ll shorten my responses as suggested and try to adjust my content further. I’d ask that conversation/opinions are kept within the discussion space.

This forum is a fantastic resource. I suppose we are the custodians. I think it does influence others, so what we say matters. I for one am gonna try and raise my game.

See,.……..look how short that one was!

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I also hope Voodooo stays on this forum.

I know I'll regret this which is why I try to avoid these exchanges, but I've done it now, although I'll make this my last on this thread so you can have the final word.

"No where was I argumentative with 900RS"

Your comment:
"..... I also think you’re just here to stink up the air like you are sour about something towards the Norton brand or perhaps Stuart himself." Somewhat ironic given your recent postings.

"No where was I ride with SCS-delta. I asked a legitimate question."

Ok, if you think that's an appropriate way to welcome a potentially useful contributor to the forum. I was referring to more reasonable people who would have understood that suppliers contracted to Norton would likely be restricted from interacting publicly with Norton customers, which is why you won't see the other suppliers on here.

"As far as NortonDominator2020. Yes.
I admit I was. He’s a fucking idiot. We all tried to help him and he was always rude and no matter how many of us tried to help, he always had the answers."

I agree, although it was primarily yourself who contributed to the name calling and deterioration of the exchange. It takes two to tango and you seem to be a willing partner.

"Don’t be cowardly, just call my name out Comet"

I didn't consider it necessary to include your moniker as I felt it was obvious who I was referring to, which is part of the point here.