What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

Stephen_Spencer said:
You might be conflating different subjects here just a little Voodooo;).

It‘s been mentioned that Norton will likely access the Indian market at some stage. I suspect the ‘point‘ might be to manufacture in India, potentially badge it Norton and sell off the back of Nortons cred - in competition with RE (at the more budget end of the market). I don’t necessarily think that it will be a bike(s) they introduce into their principle markets. Maybe down the track - who knows.

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‘I‘ don’t say ‘they want to stay luxury’ - Norton has said it, directly and clearly.

We’re talking about future bike models Voodooo, and a potentially more budget machine fror the Indian market - not quite sure what the 961 has to do with the conversation.
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My point is. I don’t see Norton TVS making a cheaper, more affordable bike that’s British made and cost less than the 961
 
robs ss said:
Reply just now...

Dear Rob,

We're delighted you're interested in purchasing a V4CR. We've been working incredibly hard to create the ultimate incarnation of the café racer and we're looking forward to seeing you ride one.

We're going to be opening orders very soon but we'd ask you if you don't mind waiting that little bit longer. We promise it will be worth it. If you're outside of the UK, we're going to have to ask you to be extra patient - Norton is coming, just not quite yet.

As soon as it's ready, we'll be in touch but in the meantime, we'd invite you to head to our YouTube channel (Norton Motorcycles - YouTube), where you can watch one making the most of the finest roads Wales has to offer.

Best wishes and safe riding,

The Norton Team

So... as the vulture said - how long is "patient"?
Cheers
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I prefer the SV but the CR is one classy looking motorcycle - even better in the flesh apparently.
Looks like we’ll get to see them in Aus also.

It’s stretching the definition of a Cafe Racer somewhat but hey, don’t most of them.

 
robs ss said:
What's the gos on delivering to Oz?
Dealership here?
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Not currently Rob; they’ve been pretty consistent in the indications though. USA at the back end of 2024, Europe and Aus to follow.

A bit vague of course but that seems to be their approach - no announcements until they have something definitive to confirm. Good in some ways - frustrating in others.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I prefer the SV but the CR is one classy looking motorcycle - even better in the flesh apparently.
Looks like we’ll get to see them in Aus also.

It’s stretching the definition of a Cafe Racer somewhat but hey, don’t most of them.

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For me, it's not a cafe racer....its a street fighter. It looks like someone binned his v4ss, couldn't get parts to repair the fairing etc, so made it into that with parts off ebay.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
For me, it's not a cafe racer....its a street fighter. It looks like someone binned his v4ss, couldn't get parts to repair the fairing etc, so made it into that with parts off ebay.
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Funny, that's how I characterized the Triumph Speed Triple the first time I saw one.
Norton needs to study the Aprilia Tuono styling cues, and take another stab at the CR, and make a proper hooligan.
 
I get the orange seat, its going back to the 60s. But to call it a cafe racer imo is wrong. A cafe racer is a standard bike thats been fettled, traditionally in a shed, to be more racey....thrashing from cafe/pub to cafe/pub, to impress your mates and more importantly to impress the girls. A bike that's pitched as developed at the toughest road race in the world, to give you a road going version of a race bike, that's then had its clothes removed, goes against the whole ethos of what a cafe racer is.
 

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Well, whatever.
Let's just say a modern V4 Cafe Racer was ill advised, and leave it at that.
Nobody is perfect, and this just proves that the Norton product planning folks are human.
I hope this will be a lesson as such, and future products will be better planned.
Like releasing conceptual drawings of planned offerings, as Japanese companies do.
Like the Donington crew did with the 650s.:rolleyes:
 
Fast Eddie said:
You’re right, it does need some styling tweaks.

It also needs raised bars… carbon bodywork… a seat that is not orange FFS… and finally, at least £10k slicing off the RRP…
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So basically a Ducati streetfighter with carbon body work.
It’s 392 pounds and 208 hp with stock exhaust.

Throw on some carbon body parts and carbon wheels and a decat race exhaust and you’ll be
360 pounds and 216 hp. For half the price and spare parts are available
 

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Fast Eddie said:
A mate had one of them but he sold it cos it was too manic for him!

Road tests I’ve read of the V4SS do read very well for a road bike with the chassis and engine being more suited to road than track.

Which really does make a decent naked version sound like a bloody good idea I recon.

I’d happily pay a premium for the Norton-ness and the ‘loss’ of power vs the 200 plus brigade I doubt would concern me.

But it’s all rather moot as the ‘premium’ prices of the current V4s are too premium for me.
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I agree , the price is too high . I could see scratching together maybe high $ twenties , but high fourties puts it out of reach for me.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I’d happily pay a premium for the Norton-ness and the ‘loss’ of power vs the 200 plus brigade I doubt would concern me.

But it’s all rather moot as the ‘premium’ prices of the current V4s are too premium for me.
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I would actually prefer 185-200hp range instead of the 200+, if they could re-cam the engine for strong mid range and low rpm torque. Lots of torque makes great real world rideability.
But the price as is, is a killer.
 
Fast Eddie said:
A mate had one of them but he sold it cos it was too manic for him!

Road tests I’ve read of the V4SS do read very well for a road bike with the chassis and engine being more suited to road than track.

Which really does make a decent naked version sound like a bloody good idea I recon.

I’d happily pay a premium for the Norton-ness and the ‘loss’ of power vs the 200 plus brigade I doubt would concern me.

But it’s all rather moot as the ‘premium’ prices of the current V4s are too premium for me.
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Definitely
The Norton is a more beautiful bike and special.

But how good is it? Hopefully better than a 961 as far as build quality
 
It’s certainly a no compromise aggressively styled bike - looks diminutive - tall dudes need not apply! Shows they are not shy about being progressive though - maybe.

Norton‘s take on a modern cafe racer, using what they had in the shed - namely the V4SS. A cost effective way to extend the model lineup no doubt. A nibble to feed the lions, before the main course is ready.

Very few of the modern CR’s stay true to the original configuration/concepts, or I guess they wouldn’t be seen a ‘modern take’ really. The Norton‘s no different I suppose.

My guess, the clip-ons were seen as a none-negotiable facet of a cafe racer. Norton and the cafe racer are synonymous. Norton and the street fighter - not so. If the only real differentiator between the cafe racer and the street fighter is the bars though, then maybe we’ve strayed a little too far in the styling stakes, IMO.

Price is very high. Could they make it any cheaper though, without reducing quality/spec (which looks very high). Also noting there is no automation; frame hand made/polished etc. No economies of scale - international volumes etc. Could they make an acceptable profit margin with a lower price tag?

The intent, to maximise quality and with lower numbers build exclusivity - fitting in with the luxury/premium market goal. Like the approach or loath it, I guess that comes at a price. Too expensive? For me, yes. For the market, we’ll see. I guess if they sell, they were priced correctly. If not………!

For those that want to be the only swinging dick at that bikers haunt, as opposed to pulling up on yer Ducati street fighter to park beside another half a dozen!

IMG_9108.jpeg
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
It’s certainly a no compromise aggressively styled bike - looks diminutive - tall dudes need not apply! Shows they are not shy about being progressive though - maybe.

Norton‘s take on a modern cafe racer, using what they had in the shed - namely the V4SS. A cost effective way to extend the model lineup no doubt. A nibble to feed the lions, before the main course is ready.

Very few of the modern CR’s stay true to the original configuration/concepts, or I guess they wouldn’t be seen a ‘modern take’ really. The Norton‘s no different I suppose.

My guess, the clip-ons were seen as a none-negotiable facet of a cafe racer. Norton and the cafe racer are synonymous. Norton and the street fighter - not so. If the only real differentiator between the cafe racer and the street fighter is the bars though, then maybe we’ve strayed a little too far in the styling stakes, IMO.

Price is very high. Could they make it any cheaper though, without reducing quality/spec (which looks very high). Also noting there is no automation; frame hand made/polished etc. No economies of scale - international volumes etc. Could they make an acceptable profit margin with a lower price tag?

The intent, to maxime quality and with lower numbers build exclusivity - fitting in with the luxury/premium market goal. Like the approach or loath it, I guess that comes at a price. Too expensive? For me, yes. For the market, we’ll see. I guess if they sell, they were priced correctly. If not………!

For those that want to be the only swinging dick at that bikers haunt, as opposed to pulling up on yer Ducati street fighter to park beside another half a dozen!

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Show me a bike meet with a half dozen Ducati Streetfighters.

Ducati has proven performance and reliability. Where can Norton prove that with anything they offer right now? They can’t.

I get the exclusive, low production numbers, but how many people that actually buy a Norton V4 are going to ride them?
I don’t call those people motorcyclist,
I call them curators.


If you didn’t know this had a Norton name on it, you wouldn’t like it. You only like it because it says Norton on it.

I could put a Norton logo on a TVS scooter and you’d drool over it.
You’re to biased Stephen.
 

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Not interested Voodooo. You know, in the usual (nobody wants to read it other than the popcorn brigade).

- I join a ‘conversation’ and give my opinion as I see it.
- One of the usual suspects (mostly you) escalates the ‘conversation’ to an ‘argument’.
- You throw in a load of ridicule and maybe a little name calling.
- One of you points the finger at me for arguing with everybody - cos I just wanna be right🤣!!!

As I say, the usual.

Not interested.

Steve xx

Afternote. Mate - changing your posts after a reply has been posted is a good ‘game’, but not really legit😉!
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Not interested Voodooo. You know, in the usual (nobody wants to read it other than the popcorn brigade).

- I join a ‘conversation’ and give my opinion as I see it.
- One of the usual suspects (mostly you) escalates the ‘conversation’ to an ‘argument’.
- You throw in a load of ridicule and maybe a little name calling.
- One of you points the finger at me for arguing with everybody - cos I just wanna be right🤣!!!

As I say, the usual.

Not interested.

Steve xx

Afternote. Mate - changing your posts after a reply has been posted is a good ‘game’, but not really legit😉!
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No Stephen. I change it because you’re not worth it. I proven my point and deleted my last post because you only see your views as the only way.

ANYTIME anyone says anything against Norton, ANYTIME anyone says something they don’t like about a Norton bike, you literally have a meltdown.

I stand by my statement that you are way too biased.

Myself and others posted their opinions about the V4 bikes and you cannot handle it. You’re entitled to your opinions, but you cannot stand when someone disagrees with you.

I’ve asked you numerous times to block me, I’ll admit I can’t stand you. You’re annoying as FUCK and I know I annoy you too.

You blame me for arguing with you all the time, but guess what? Take some of that blame yourself because you’re half the problem. Block me!

This will help clean up this mess on the forum. Take some ownership in mudding the waters!
 
I will step in to say that once in a while on here, almost anyone of us sounds like an arrogant opinionated asshole. Can´t help it when it gets to the object of the passion we have.
I believe that I speak for most of us on here to say that we maintain our presence to get technical information and to exchange riding and ownership experience and legit thoughts on the brand, history, future, general biking, etc. Everything else is redundant.

As for the V4SV, if it was here and now oficially in Europe at a dealership with time-proven support (note multiple no-gos here), I would probably buy it if I were to fit. This will take some years, if ever, by which time it will be an old model ready to be discontinued or rethought. On the other hand, Suzuki has been selling the DRZ400 in America for a quarter of a century with no problems! So, as always, it will be something in between.
The high price is a part of the actual package, as with every exclusive item. The 961 is partially the same story. I would not want it nearly as much (probably not at all) if it was as ubiquitous as a GS, for example (often optioned to the same price, coincidentally). The way it is now, I have never in my life seen another 961 on the road anywhere, so that is a value point of its own for me personally.
 
CR961 said:
I will step in to say that once in a while on here, almost anyone of us sounds like an arrogant opinionated asshole. Can´t help it when it gets to the object of the passion we have.
I believe that I speak for most of us on here to say that we maintain our presence to get technical information and to exchange riding and ownership experience and legit thoughts on the brand, history, future, general biking, etc. Everything else is redundant.

As for the V4SV, if it was here and now oficially in Europe at a dealership with time-proven support (note multiple no-gos here), I would probably buy it if I were to fit. This will take some years, if ever, by which time it will be an old model ready to be discontinued or rethought. On the other hand, Suzuki has been selling the DRZ400 in America for a quarter of a century with no problems! So, as always, it will be something in between.
The high price is a part of the actual package, as with every exclusive item. The 961 is partially the same story. I would not want it nearly as much (probably not at all) if it was as ubiquitous as a GS, for example (often optioned to the same price, coincidentally). The way it is now, I have never in my life seen another 961 on the road anywhere, so that is a value point of its own for me personally.
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The V4 is already outdated CR961.

This months Bike magazine tested it. The test actually reads very well IMO for a ROAD bike. Their opinions of it definitely make me think it would be a perfect basis for a more upright naked bike (as I’ve discussed already).

They slate things like the mirrors and the screen / dash. Ok, many sports bikes have shit mirrors, but the negative comments on the dash are bad for a bike of this price and position. This is a main rider / machine interface point and will therefore become very irksome for owners and is not fixable with aftermarket bolt on goodies.

But, even though their comments are positive overal, they basically liken it to a 2008 Honda Fireblade in terms of how it rides and describe it as being a generation behind in terms of performance.

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