What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

City Garage said:
Resales are more important than anything. People don't want to buy something to know a year later it loses half its value. The last look ar the registration data says not many sales. Also as far as I am aware not one dealer is "stocking" new anything.
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Agreed CG, resale value is pretty important. One thing’s for sure, anybody who bought a Donington 961 as an investment would be pretty disappointed; 10 years + down the track, who knows. For those of us whose bike is a keeper, then who cares really. Certainly don’t see the Solihull bikes depreciating by 50% in 12 months - unlikely to say the least.

The fact that you can buy the same bike but without the technical problems also affects Donington values of course. Those below appear to be pretty representative of values in the UK - from a quick look only. Don’t know how they compare to other second hand machines on the market by way of depreciation? Difficult to say. From a higher purchase price than most of course.

They are clearly being built to order/spec CG - so maybe doesn’t make sense to hold stock. It would be great to know how many have actually sold and also how much interest there may be overseas. I guess that’s key in the long run to whether Norton deem the relaunch of the 961 a success or a failure. I guess we all get the feeling that it could be going better.

What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...
 
Fast Eddie said:
There are several for sale in the U.K. in the £8k+ region (some in the £6-£7k region) that have not sold all summer, inc one around the corner from me! A quick look on FB shows people re listing, lowering prices, etc.

Honestly I don’t see how we’d expect any different. This is a tiny niche market, the older bikes have very, very, well documented issues and TVS now (allegedly at least) sell new ones sans issues, with warranty, etc.

Also, this is normal for any bike isn’t it? Look around at any 10-13 year old bike and compare it to the cost of a new version…!

Look on the bright side, cheap 961s means more access to project bikes to cafe racer-ise, take on the track, build 1200cc Tritons with, etc, etc ! We’ll also see more being broken, which will provide parts for you guys and, in the long game, improve the rarity and value of your bikes.

All part of the natural cycle of bikes becoming old and cheap, and then gradually becoming classic.
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Based upon numerous factors these should be "special" and collectible but like I said with the Mantra things have a weird way of working out and not in a good way. Also when people are buying anything like this they expect some value as evidenced by every customer of mine who paid 20-25K for the 1 of etc numbers.
 
Papa Smurf’s first quick vid of the NEC (fm FB). All anniversary models displayed, but alongside the original machine the livery was based on - nice touch.

Relatively small total number to be sold, 125 - all models. Sold 20 in the few days before the NEC, which is a reasonable start I guess.



New format owners manual - definitely different (I vote cool, in a gimmicky sort of way - nobody carries them when riding any more do they?). PS’s production is getting slicker by the day. Reckon he’s getting pretty good at this. No doubt he’ll graduate from Norton to other marques.

For those that don’t do FB.



 
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Drone tour from Norton FB around the Solihull factory - tease of something hiding under a dust cover?!

Well worth a watch.


Not sure you can watch it if ya don’t have FB. I’ll post it again when it reaches YouTube.

Not a brilliant bluff - looks suspiciously like the underside of a V4SV to me🤣! Could be wrong - often am.

What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Drone tour from Norton FB around the Solihull factory - tease of something hiding under a dust cover?!

Well worth a watch.


Not sure you can watch it if ya don’t have FB. I’ll post it again when it reaches YouTube.

Not a brilliant bluff - looks suspiciously like the underside of a V4SV to me🤣! Could be wrong - often am.

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View attachment 111065
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worth watching to see the scope of what is going on. Looks expanded since January visit. Oh, and the beanie hats are all sold out at present!
 
jan nelder said:
worth watching to see the scope of what is going on. Looks expanded since January visit. Oh, and the beanie hats are all sold out at present!
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Agreed, the factory definitely looks bigger. Dean, the guy who showed us around in May said they had already outgrown the existing site.
 
The drone tour sure comes across as reassuring. Just take it as the ideal state of things, day to day doesn´t look like this. I haven´t been to Norton yet, but have experience with many such photo ops at household name global companies. We all smile for the camera.
If half the vibrancy in the video indeed made its way to customer care and products, this board wouldn´t have much to discuss.
 
Great video, lots of people, lots of racking and boxes, but it does not look like it could handle the component throughput and build rate to get anywhere near 7,000 units a year. The amount of equipment they have there for quality inspection and office space looks like that Solihull will just be the design and test centre. Some bikes under the black covers seem the more interesting.
 
As covered in the vid, the 7000 units per year would be a 24/7 production situation. My guess is they’re configured currently to meet whatever their projected totals were for the first few years. No real need for a football field sized reception area etc.

As they ramp up there’s no doubt contingency planning for some reconfiguration (addition), you’d have to think. Along with increased staffing levels etc - they’re definitely gonna need more than one dude polishing posh parts for example! :oops:

Likin‘ the obvious emphasis on quality control. Pretty bloody important whichever the marque. That‘s why I was a bit surprised to see this factory decal on the back of my mates new KTM. It’s literally 15+mm off square - obvious to the eye. He’s also got minor oil seepage from the head.

Small things easily fixed at first service, but makes you wonder how difficult some of that QC becomes at higher volumes, and for some marques with multiple manufacturing locations.

IMG_2260.jpeg
 
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The main reason for the sudden values dropping is Norton. They've tried their VERY best to tar everything from the Donington era with the same brush. Publicly stating they will not service Donington bikes. Publicly stating that they will not take Donington bikes in part exchange. Advising people with Donington bikes who phone the factory with a concern, to disconnect the battery and not to use the bike.
Christian Gladwell stating he had a hate hate relationship with his Donington bike, but has now ordered a Solihull 961....in the same interview where he stated he'd been riding for 20yrs, yet there he is on social media tearing up his L plates in 2014...
Unfortunately this has all slightly backfired for them, as prices in the UK for sorted later machines is now on the rise again, along with the more sought after Dominator variants holding strong, around £30k for an unused SS.....and more importantly selling for those prices too! The Solihull assembled mk2.5 looks near as damn it, identical to the Donington Commando.....but to someone who doesn't know the brands model intimately, the Solihull bikes don't look quite as good in many areas to an 50th anniversary for example, some parts appear lower spec.
So the Donington bikes are retaining good values, and people are choosing them over a mk2.5 based on looks and a couple of grand saved. Reliability on the Donington era is now at an all time high.....Solihull slamming the door on Donington owners, resulted in people pulling together and working out long term solutions. The Donington era of 961's is the strongest it's EVER been, both in the bikes reliability and usability along with the general community outlook towards their bikes....where as sales of new 961's is the lowest its EVER been. Garner could sell the bikes no problem, fulfilling those orders is where it fell short.
 
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Stu Bodycote said:
The main reason for the sudden values dropping is Norton. They've tried their VERY best to tar everything from the Donington era with the same brush. Publicly stating they will not service Donington bikes. Publicly stating that they will not take Donington bikes in part exchange. Advising people with Donington bikes who phone the factory with a concern, to disconnect the battery and not to use the bike.
Christian Gladwell stating he had a hate hate relationship with his Donington bike, but has now ordered a Solihull 961....in the same interview where he stated he'd been riding for 20yrs, yet there he is on social media tearing up his L plates in 2014...
Unfortunately this has all slightly backfired, as prices in the UK for sorted later machines is now on the rise again, along with the more sought after Dominator variants holding strong, around £30k for an unused SS. The Solihull assembled mk2.5 looks near as damn it, identical.....to someone who doesn't know the brands model intimately, the Solihull bikes don't look quite as good in many areas to an 50th anniversary for example, some parts appear lower spec.
So the Donington bikes are retaining good values, and people are choosing them over a mk2.5 based on looks and a couple of grand saved. Reliability on the Donington era is now at an all time high.....Solihull slamming the door on Donington owners, resulted in people pulling together and working out long term solutions. The Donington era of 961's is the strongest it's EVER been, both in the bikes reliability and usability along with the general community outlook towards their bikes....where as sales of new 961's is the lowest its ever been.
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A lot of of the reliability is down to you Stu. My old 961 was reliable after doing the modifications and tweeking it as the new owner is very pleased with his Norton. 😀
 
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Stu Bodycote said:
The main reason for the sudden values dropping is Norton. They've tried their VERY best to tar everything from the Donington era with the same brush. Publicly stating they will not service Donington bikes. Publicly stating that they will not take Donington bikes in part exchange. Advising people with Donington bikes who phone the factory with a concern, to disconnect the battery and not to use the bike.
Christian Gladwell stating he had a hate hate relationship with his Donington bike, but has now ordered a Solihull 961....in the same interview where he stated he'd been riding for 20yrs, yet there he is on social media tearing up his L plates in 2014...
Unfortunately this has all slightly backfired, as prices in the UK for sorted later machines is now on the rise again, along with the more sought after Dominator variants holding strong, around £30k for an unused SS. The Solihull assembled mk2.5 looks near as damn it, identical.....to someone who doesn't know the brands model intimately, the Solihull bikes don't look quite as good in many areas to an 50th anniversary for example, some parts appear lower spec.
So the Donington bikes are retaining good values, and people are choosing them over a mk2.5 based on looks and a couple of grand saved. Reliability on the Donington era is now at an all time high.....Solihull slamming the door on Donington owners, resulted in people pulling together and working out long term solutions. The Donington era of 961's is the strongest it's EVER been, both in the bikes reliability and usability along with the general community outlook towards their bikes....where as sales of new 961's is the lowest its ever been.
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This is true. A well sorted later years Donny is a much better bargain.

The values here have dropped so much. Look at this recent sale https://iconicmotorbikeauctions.com/auction/2013-norton-commando-961-sf/ sold for 8500 usd. The owner didn't try much. Bike is filthy and looks not maintained. No apparent upgrades either so the new owner has some room to improve. No passenger seat is shown.

Like @Voodooo said.....depressing
 
City Garage said:
This is true. A well sorted later years Donny is a much better bargain.

The values here have dropped so much. Look at this recent sale https://iconicmotorbikeauctions.com/auction/2013-norton-commando-961-sf/ sold for 8500 usd. The owner didn't try much. Bike is filthy and looks not maintained. No apparent upgrades either so the new owner has some room to improve. No passenger seat is shown.

Like @Voodooo said.....depressing
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Just over £7k in our money....yeah thats cheap, and yeah its depressing. What's the spares situation like over there nowadays?
 
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