What’s the best none Norton Norton ?

TonyA said:
Do you think they will make the 961 again ? Or is this the end of the road ?
Click to expand...

That is the big question isn’t it?

As I’ve said before, IF they engineer out the flaws, and IF they sell it at a marketable price point, I do believe there is a market. And a healthy one at that.

But if I were a betting man, I’d have to admit I think the odds are not favourable that they’ll see it as worth the effort.
 
However .... no one really knows exactly what their intentions are , correct .... we all do like to speculate , and it is entertaining to follow the spec ... must admit I too am very curious as to the future of our beloved brand ...
 
TonyA said:
It will if you let it. Do you think they will make the 961 again ? Or is this the end of the road ?
Click to expand...
At the new site on Thursday for a service and repair. Told they will be making 40 more 961s. My guess is to fulfill outstanding orders, then it will end.

Was told they will continue with spares for 10 years.
 
BikerBore said:
Told they will be making 40 more 961s. My guess is to fulfill outstanding orders, then it will end.

Was told they will continue with spares for 10 years.
Click to expand...

I would think that they are putting out this effort to show that they intend to stand behind the (their) brand.

Once they get a close look at the basic 961 design and its flaws, they will most likely not want to take on the burden of continuing production.
No one wants to deal with other folk's design/engineering flaws.

But who can tell if the new owners may see a market in producing a new Commando twin, redesigned from the ground up.
Only time will tell.
 
I haven't ridden one, and I did loath my R100RT and got sick of my Guzzi Eldorado pretty quick. If you have to work on it, like the Guzzi, it might as well BE a Norton. I'm wondering if a BMW F series might be right for me. In the mean time, I'm enjoying 1978 through 1981 Suzuki GS1000s. Familiar rake and trail, durable like cement and reliable as gravity, and almost free. I'm noticably getting weaker as I age, and their 600 lb weight may become an issue. Thats why I'm thinking F series. I've got to be able to load it down with touring crap.
 
Haha! , neither did I earlier .... a riding buddy has a gt 800 (bmw) , think that what he calls it ... vertical twin for sure , he was digging around recently and realized that there appeared to be no on-board fuses that he could locate , he figures computer decides when wire is overloaded etc. and disconnects .... he is a bit baffled , I think his bike is 2014 , are all new bikes without good old fuses ???
 
TonyA said:
The poor Norton 961 has got no reason to live anymore .
Click to expand...

I really want Triumph to go from strength to strength (still a British marque after all) but personally, I simply don’t see them through the same lense as the Norton at all. Dress that 1200 motor up in whatever vintage looking clothes you like, but they are still modern mass produced machines. With only the TFC bikes to be made at Hinckley now, the shine from that lense appears even duller.

Are we comparing like with like? Are we almost as well comparing a Kawasaki to a Norton as a Triumph? This is not an indictment of Triumph, they are awesome machines but do they offer a comparable (visceral) riding experience or the same sense of ownership as our Norton’s do (faults and all)? My lense is clearly rose tinted by patriotism and a love of the real vintage experience. My opinion only.:) Steve.
 
Fast Eddie said:
That is the big question isn’t it?

As I’ve said before, IF they engineer out the flaws, and IF they sell it at a marketable price point, I do believe there is a market. And a healthy one at that.

But if I were a betting man, I’d have to admit I think the odds are not favourable that they’ll see it as worth the effort.
Click to expand...
What is the marketable price point in your opinion ? HD Sportster level pricing ? I doubt that can happen don't you ? I mean a Sportster here is 9 K to 12 K USD new.
 
TonyA said:
What is the marketable price point in your opinion ?
Click to expand...

Another million dollar question !

I think it depends on spec of materials and whether or not they succeed in ironing out the flaws, and perhaps squeezing out a bit more go.

Personally I think the Anniversary bikes were a marketable price, but the theoretical value of those bikes, inc all the ‘extras’ was over £21k if I recall correctly. IMHO that is NOT a marketable price for the performance on offer.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I really want Triumph to go from strength to strength (still a British marque after all) but personally, I simply don’t see them through the same lense as the Norton at all. Dress that 1200 motor up in whatever vintage looking clothes you like, but they are still modern mass produced machines. With only the TFC bikes to be made at Hinckley now, the shine from that lense appears even duller.

Are we comparing like with like? Are we almost as well comparing a Kawasaki to a Norton as a Triumph? This is not an indictment of Triumph, they are awesome machines but do they offer a comparable (visceral) riding experience or the same sense of ownership as our Norton’s do (faults and all)? My lense is clearly rose tinted by patriotism and a love of the real vintage experience. My opinion only.:) Steve.
Click to expand...
Are any bikes made at Hinckley now ?
 
Fast Eddie said:
Another million dollar question !

I think it depends on spec of materials and whether or not they succeed in ironing out the flaws, and perhaps squeezing out a bit more go.

Personally I think the Anniversary bikes were a marketable price, but the theoretical value of those bikes, inc all the ‘extras’ was over £21k if I recall correctly. IMHO that is NOT a marketable price for the performance on offer.
Click to expand...
In my view , where we the buyers were let down mostly is in refinement and reliability. The bike needed another year or two of development . The valve train on the Harley sounds like an electric motor by comparison , that's how quiet the HD is .
Voodooo said:
He sold the R9T and bought this HD FXDR
Click to expand...
 
Fast Eddie said:
Another million dollar question !

I think it depends on spec of materials and whether or not they succeed in ironing out the flaws, and perhaps squeezing out a bit more go.

Personally I think the Anniversary bikes were a marketable price, but the theoretical value of those bikes, inc all the ‘extras’ was over £21k if I recall correctly. IMHO that is NOT a marketable price for the performance on offer.
Click to expand...
Why can't they do like Harley did and offer up a high performance package ie: (screaming eagle) etc.. Market it off road use only etc.. New ECU load , new cam , pistons etc. There are owners who would have paid for this .
 
TonyA said:
In my view , where we the buyers were let down mostly is in refinement and reliability. The bike needed another year or two of development . The valve train on the Harley sounds like an electric motor by comparison , that's how quiet the HD is .
Click to expand...

Tony,
Doesn't most of the 961's clatter originate in the primary?

TonyA said:
Why can't they do like Harley did and offer up a high performance package ie: (screaming eagle) etc.. Market it off road use only etc.. New ECU load , new cam , pistons etc. There are owners who would have paid for this .
Click to expand...

TVS could water cool the head like Harley did.
That would make the performance improvements that much more worth while, and could pass regulatory controls worldwide.
Maybe redesign the crankcases to deliberately make the engine a wet sump unit (pun intended)- eliminate external oil tank, and a better breather design.

Make me CEO of Norton and there would be a New 961 Commando - or a 1000, or 1100 maybe.
liquid cool head
Wet sump crankcases - skeletonized to save weight like modern sportbikes
Spin-on oil filter
Balancer shaft driven off the timing side of the crank
Six speed gearbox
Gear shift shaft below and behind the clutch (where it should be) like the 952 prototype
Swingarm pivot through the rear of the crankcases - lighter frame better handling.
Mono-shock rear suspension
Classic Morris Mag wheels.

New Super Commando
Above bike with a supercharger.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Another million dollar question !

I think it depends on spec of materials and whether or not they succeed in ironing out the flaws, and perhaps squeezing out a bit more go.

Personally I think the Anniversary bikes were a marketable price, but the theoretical value of those bikes, inc all the ‘extras’ was over £21k if I recall correctly. IMHO that is NOT a marketable price for the performance on offer.
Click to expand...
In my view , where we the buyers were let down mostly is in refinement and reliability. The bike needed another year or two of development . The valve train on the Harley sounds like an electric motor by comparison , that's how quiet it is .
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Another year or two development?? Sorry, but really?? Isn't 80 years enough? It was only an air/oil cooled two overhead valve pushrod parallel twin....
Click to expand...

Apparently not. A great deal of time is spent on getting NVH (noise vibration harshness) in check . Let's hope the 650 is better.
 
Last edited:
BritTwit said:
Tony,
Doesn't most of the 961's clatter originate in the primary?



TVS could water cool the head like Harley did.
That would make the performance improvements that much more worth while, and could pass regulatory controls worldwide.
Maybe redesign the crankcases to deliberately make the engine a wet sump unit (pun intended)- eliminate external oil tank, and a better breather design.

Make me CEO of Norton and there would be a New 961 Commando - or a 1000, or 1100 maybe.
liquid cool head
Wet sump crankcases - skeletonized to save weight like modern sportbikes
Spin-on oil filter
Balancer shaft driven off the timing side of the crank
Six speed gearbox
Gear shift shaft below and behind the clutch (where it should be) like the 952 prototype
Swingarm pivot through the rear of the crankcases - lighter frame better handling.
Mono-shock rear suspension
Classic Morris Mag wheels.

New Super Commando
Above bike with a supercharger.
Click to expand...
Buy A KTM 890R ?
 

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