TVS new owner

Voodooo said:
How is a ice cleaner than a ev? It’s not. No matter how you look at it’s.
From oil production to tail pipe emissions, ev is still a environmentally cleaner option.

A cars EV battery can be recycled and it last a minimum of 10 years and as much as 20+ years. In the USA hardly anyone keeps a car beyond a lease agreement.

I don’t see why people are so scared and threatened by EV.
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Apologies, don't want to appear nit picking here but....

' In the USA hardly anyone keeps a car beyond a lease agreement. '

Sorry, I don't understand the relevance?? Are we talking ICE here? Because if we are, I doubt they're being thrown away or crushed, no? Second hand sales must be a good 'green' option, surely? And that goes for both categories, ICE or EV.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Yes, fear is the wrong word. I’m not frightened of EVs or even anti EV at all

Annoyed is more like it. I’m anti things being pushed before they are ready… and made ‘law’ ! Governments seem to think ‘pass a bill and it will happen’. Sadly there‘s usually more effort involved!

I‘m annoyed that the governments are forcing things through legal action rather than helping and allowing EV to simply become the better choice.

When it IS the better choice, ICE will die naturally, no need to force the issue.

The fact that they are forcing the issue is actually proof that EVs aren’t yet the better choice.

Voodoo, EVs are of course superior at reducing local pollution, ie the air around them.

But the total carbon footprint is FAR less clear. Longevity and recyclability is FAR less clear. And these questions will get a LOT bigger as the volumes increase. Currently EVs are little more than a novelty for the industry and market in terms of volume. When they go mainstream is a different matter altogether. Current lithium mining, processing and shipping will have to increase exponentially for example.

We need FAR better and plentiful charging infrastructure and a massive increase in electric generating capacity before we start ‘forcing‘ the buying public into EVs.

And regarding the development of ICEs since 1900, the only engines that use more fuel than they did then are ones doing it on purpose, ie extreme performance engines (even then I doubt the claim). ‘Normal’ engines are cleaner and more efficient than ever before. Actually by a massive margin.

Personally, I also believe that hydrogen is a far better answer.

But reverting to the fear topic, actually there is a fear, there is a fear that folk like us will all be outlawed off the roads. Left with worthless junk that we’ve all put so much into. Perhaps even unable to travel freely at all when petrol is banned and electricity is rationed…
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Fast Eddie said:
Yes, fear is the wrong word. I’m not frightened of EVs or even anti EV at all

Annoyed is more like it. I’m anti things being pushed before they are ready… and made ‘law’ ! Governments seem to think ‘pass a bill and it will happen’. Sadly there‘s usually more effort involved!

I‘m annoyed that the governments are forcing things through legal action rather than helping and allowing EV to simply become the better choice.

When it IS the better choice, ICE will die naturally, no need to force the issue.

The fact that they are forcing the issue is actually proof that EVs aren’t yet the better choice.

Voodoo, EVs are of course superior at reducing local pollution, ie the air around them.

But the total carbon footprint is FAR less clear. Longevity and recyclability is FAR less clear. And these questions will get a LOT bigger as the volumes increase. Currently EVs are little more than a novelty for the industry and market in terms of volume. When they go mainstream is a different matter altogether. Current lithium mining, processing and shipping will have to increase exponentially for example.

We need FAR better and plentiful charging infrastructure and a massive increase in electric generating capacity before we start ‘forcing‘ the buying public into EVs.

And regarding the development of ICEs since 1900, the only engines that use more fuel than they did then are ones doing it on purpose, ie extreme performance engines (even then I doubt the claim). ‘Normal’ engines are cleaner and more efficient than ever before. Actually by a massive margin.

Personally, I also believe that hydrogen is a far better answer.

But reverting to the fear topic, actually there is a fear, there is a fear that folk like us will all be outlawed off the roads. Left with worthless junk that we’ve all put so much into. Perhaps even unable to travel freely at all when petrol is banned and electricity is rationed…
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TVS new owner
TVS new owner
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Also, is the beloved 'carbon footprint' for manufacturing these vehicles currently any less for ICE?
Were the raw materials delivered in 'clean' vehicles, do all the workers turn up on bicycles? Does the factory (and all it's suppliers) run on renewable energy sources...
I don't knock the idea of EV per se, but that eerie sounding BMW with the smug owner is only a small part of the picture, IMHO
'Lip service' is the phrase I would use at the moment...
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The point is, EV’s don’t produce green house emissions like ICE. You’ll never get away from the production of any energy source making pollution. Producing oil and gas isn’t clean from the day it’s brought from the ground to the day it’s spit from the tail pipe.

Not only does ice pollute more, it’s also inefficient and requires more parts and maintenance.
 
BritTwit said:
EV's have made strides in the last 20 years, but they have a way to go.
All I'm saying is allow both types to exist. Most EV's are affordable for many folks.
When EV's provide better utility, and range than ICE vehicles, people will switch, willingly.

My belief is that hydrogen fuel cell EV's are the real solution, not battery power.
Look at the Toyota Mirai.
Gets 400+ miles on a fuel load, and can be refueled in 5-10 minutes like an ICE vehicle.
Right now the Mirai is too expensive, and there are precious few hydrogen refueling stations around.
But this is the tech that will bring EV's into their own, and actually challenge ICE vehicles.

The tech to manufacture green or blue hydrogen on site at stations exists.
No lithium, cobalt mining required, not batteries to dispose of.
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I agree.

Even propane or natural gas ice is cleaner than gasoline. But nobody hardly uses it.
 
EstuaryBoy said:
'Fear?'
Sorry, that's a dumb word.. Just trying to highlight that current EV technology is next to useless in certain scenarios. The world doesn't turn on just 'personal vehicles', no??
Also, the blind faith that technology 'will improve' makes me wonder how Cancer has lasted so long....
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My point is, more people use vehicles to drive short distances than commercial vehicles. The average person only drives 60 or less miles a day.

The commercial ev isn’t even a possibility yet.

Why would they cure cancer when it makes them money ?
 
I think most of us here will meet our own demise long before the end of ICE's !
So nothing to fear,
but fear its self,

Enjoy while you can and don't look too far ahead!
 
Fast Eddie said:
Yes, fear is the wrong word. I’m not frightened of EVs or even anti EV at all

Annoyed is more like it. I’m anti things being pushed before they are ready… and made ‘law’ ! Governments seem to think ‘pass a bill and it will happen’. Sadly there‘s usually more effort involved!

I‘m annoyed that the governments are forcing things through legal action rather than helping and allowing EV to simply become the better choice.

When it IS the better choice, ICE will die naturally, no need to force the issue.

The fact that they are forcing the issue is actually proof that EVs aren’t yet the better choice.

Voodoo, EVs are of course superior at reducing local pollution, ie the air around them.

But the total carbon footprint is FAR less clear. Longevity and recyclability is FAR less clear. And these questions will get a LOT bigger as the volumes increase. Currently EVs are little more than a novelty for the industry and market in terms of volume. When they go mainstream is a different matter altogether. Current lithium mining, processing and shipping will have to increase exponentially for example.

We need FAR better and plentiful charging infrastructure and a massive increase in electric generating capacity before we start ‘forcing‘ the buying public into EVs.

And regarding the development of ICEs since 1900, the only engines that use more fuel than they did then are ones doing it on purpose, ie extreme performance engines (even then I doubt the claim). ‘Normal’ engines are cleaner and more efficient than ever before. Actually by a massive margin.

Personally, I also believe that hydrogen is a far better answer.

But reverting to the fear topic, actually there is a fear, there is a fear that folk like us will all be outlawed off the roads. Left with worthless junk that we’ve all put so much into. Perhaps even unable to travel freely at all when petrol is banned and electricity is rationed…
Click to expand...
The movie Mad Max comes to mind.

Remember the lie when people thought diesels were “clean”. Nobody in their right mind would assume such a thing.
 
joinerjohn said:
I think most of us here will meet our own demise long before the end of ICE's !
So nothing to fear,
but fear its self,

Enjoy while you can and don't look too far ahead!
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My point of the “fear” is many people are so pissy and scared of EV that they are against the change.

Sure, the government says by such and such year it’ll all be EV. Nobody believes that. But without that push , manufacturers wouldn’t dive in and get the ball rolling. Ice isn’t going away for a long long time.

I have no issue of owning a EV car or truck or motorcycle. If it’s performance based and gives me pleasure, why not.
To many people are stuck on the sound of a ice. I enjoy both.

I personally think Porsches sound lame and weak, but I know they are performance cars. Why do some people complain about the Ford GT being a V6 but they accept a 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder Porsche?
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Apologies, don't want to appear nit picking here but....

' In the USA hardly anyone keeps a car beyond a lease agreement. '

Sorry, I don't understand the relevance?? Are we talking ICE here? Because if we are, I doubt they're being thrown away or crushed, no? Second hand sales must be a good 'green' option, surely? And that goes for both categories, ICE or EV.
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My point is, people often cry about replacing a ev battery and the expense. Ev batteries have a 10 year 100k mile warranty. Some even longer.
Most people here lease new cars, the lease generally last 2-3 years.

I personally don’t lease, I buy. Then I keep it until it’s either done and worn out or I sell and buy new.

That’s what I mean by fear. Battery fear.
Even ICE engines die and need replaced or repaired.
 
If you simply assume that the total amount of fuel used for transport (petrol, diesel etc) and the total amount of fuel used for power generation (coal, turbine, hydro electric, nuclear, etc) is going to be replaced by removing petroleum/oil based products and increasing generation - the math doesn't add up.

The Australian power grid isn't up to the challenge of its current capacity, let alone the additional load of being used as the replacement of ICE.
 
Voodooo said:
My point is, people often cry about replacing a ev battery and the expense. Ev batteries have a 10 year 100k mile warranty. Some even longer.
Most people here lease new cars, the lease generally last 2-3 years.

I personally don’t lease, I buy. Then I keep it until it’s either done and worn out or I sell and buy new.

That’s what I mean by fear. Battery fear.
Even ICE engines die and need replaced or repaired.
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The thing with the 10yr / 100k miles is that I predict it will simply be uneconomical for MANY EVs to have the battery replaced. So actually that will be the cars lifespan. Most modern ICE cars lost much, much longer than that.
 
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Voodooo said:
My point is, more people use vehicles to drive short distances than commercial vehicles. The average person only drives 60 or less miles a day.
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Indeed. And that’s where the EV should be focused. For a lot of people who do that use, an EV is a perfect solution IMO. My only gripe is the Govts are forcing the death of ICE too early.

Toyota‘s strategy was (is) perfect IMO but no govts are paying attention.

Their strategy is:
EV for those who do short local journeys.
Hybrid for those who also do longer journeys and would be hampered by the range and / or have no charging access.
Hydrogen for business / freight.
ICE for remote areas.

In other words… a SENSIBLE and BALANCED use of all technologies…!

The problem we have today is that rational debate about the above has been cast out because we are in a fanatical / frenzied state.

It the job of govt to lead us at times like this. To weigh up the pros and cons sensibly, logically, and plot a course that best achieves all aims. Not to swing wildly to the extremes to gain likes and popular opinion.
 
'Not only does ice pollute more, it’s also inefficient and requires more parts and maintenance.'

Okay..... I was afeared we might be thread derailing/hijacking here (don't want to get knuckles rapped by LAB :) !) So....

Went back to re-read post #1.... Seems this was about frustration over uncertainty/lack of parts for OP's outdated, unclean, antisocial fossil burner!
So do we tell him: Bin it! Get rid! Clean up your act, save the planet, stop living in the past and embrace the new???

(Didn't think so...)
 
EstuaryBoy said:
'Not only does ice pollute more, it’s also inefficient and requires more parts and maintenance.'

Okay..... I was afeared we might be thread derailing/hijacking here (don't want to get knuckles rapped by LAB :) !) So....

Went back to re-read post #1.... Seems this was about frustration over uncertainty/lack of parts for OP's outdated, unclean, antisocial fossil burner!
So do we tell him: Bin it! Get rid! Clean up your act, save the planet, stop living in the past and embrace the new???

(Didn't think so...)
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Well it appears TVS doesn’t want us SG 961 era owners to keep our dinosaurs running either as they refuse to sell us spare parts
 
Voodooo said:
Well it appears TVS doesn’t want us SG 961 era owners to keep our dinosaurs running either as they refuse to sell us spare parts
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That’s not what has been said V2D3. Parts common between SG era/TVS will be available, which means what, 98%+ of all parts!
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
That’s not what has been said V2D3. Parts common between SG era/TVS will be available, which means what, 98%+ of all parts!
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2ss Have they sent you parts in the last 2-1/2 years? I haven’t gotten anything yet.

In that 2-1/2 year period, they could of sold us left over parts that were designed for our bikes so we can enjoy them. Sold as is.

I’ll believe the TVS (trust value service) acronym when I see it.
 
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Voodooo said:
2ss Have they sent you parts in the last 2-1/2 years? I haven’t gotten anything yet.

In that 2-1/2 year period, they could of sold us left over parts that were designed for our bikes so we can enjoy them. Sold as is.

I’ll believe the TVS (trust value service) acronym when I see it.
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No parts here either. I don't think we will see much until NEC in November , its mid-August already. Just guessing they will have their updated 961 Commando at the show. Other than little bits and pieces released here and there on line . It would be awesome to see it tested and have the riders confirm a much smoother/quieter/pleasant machine .
 
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