Trouble at Mill

Sept `12 Classic Bike mag has news item re 'Waiting game";
"At least 2 machines have reached U.K. customers in recent weeks."
-But also this.."One of those still waiting for a refund is ex-racer & race commentator James Whitham. ' I put down a 1500 pound deposit but got fed up waiting. 2 years ago I cancelled my order but i`m still waiting for my money back.' Whitham said."
 
I have had my 961 Sport for almost two years now and done around 5,000 miles. It is going well infact it seems to go better with more miles, it will easily cruise at 100 mph and Ive had an indicated 130mph top speed. I've had no problems with the petrol tank and not heard of any problems so far in the UK, however I always use Shell 97 or equivalent which I understand does not contain ethinol.
I was at the Birmingham NEC bike show at the weekend and Norton had a large stand and were taking orders but quoted delivery as around 6-9 months in the UK.
 
The trouble with the nylon tanks isn't the alcohol but the water-alcohol mix that separates out in the bottom of the tank, the nylon absorbs the water and swells. It affects Ducs and KTM street-bikes that didn't get coated properly.
 
JAYMAC posted that he`d seen an indicated 130mph or thereabouts on his S.G. 961, well, unless he`s geared it up significantly, then that would be ~7,500rpm in top, `bout a grand over max power [& redline?]....hmmmm..
 
J.A.W. said:
JAYMAC posted that he`d seen an indicated 130mph or thereabouts on his S.G. 961, well, unless he`s geared it up significantly, then that would be ~7,500rpm in top, `bout a grand over max power [& redline?]....hmmmm..
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Hmm if it is anything like mine was an indicated 130mph would be a long way of the true speed, mine would indicate 80 but the satnav said 70. When it went in for its last service I mentioned the innacuracy and it was recalibrated by some button pushing on the laptop, it's not dead on the money now but not too far off probably about 5% fast which is probably better than most. Not saying Jaymac's is the same as mine was but it may be worth checking against a satnav to see how good it is.
 
My Multistrada reads 100kph when the GPS shows 93kph, and my car is around 5kph out. Standard on modern vehicles so that that manufacturer can't be blamed if you are caught speeding.
I think i read that in Australia (and by default also in NZ) in the past vehicle speedos had to be within plus or minus 5% of correct but since early 2000's the law was changed so that + 0, -10% is the range.
 
I gleaned those performance figures - 79hp @ 6,500rpm ; 17.5 mph/1000rpm in top - from the Oct `10 , Cycle World intro - ride [not test, - still not tested].
Perhaps, JAYMAC could post video of actual performance - put his S.G. 961 on a Dynojet, so we can see one doing it?
 
C.W. also listed the 961 as having max torque of 66.4ft/lb @ 5,200rpm. Factory figures are now higher? The factory also lists dry weight as 452lbs [same for all models,superlight carbon fibre wheels/brembo brakes, on tricked up one - notwithstanding] , previously in this thread it was - 414lb, typo maybe?
 
ntst8 said:
My Multistrada reads 100kph when the GPS shows 93kph, and my car is around 5kph out. Standard on modern vehicles so that that manufacturer can't be blamed if you are caught speeding.
I think i read that in Australia (and by default also in NZ) in the past vehicle speedos had to be within plus or minus 5% of correct but since early 2000's the law was changed so that + 0, -10% is the range.
Click to expand...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedometer

European Union member states must also grant type approval to vehicles meeting similar EU standards. The ones covering speedometers [4] [5][6] are similar to the UNECE regulation in that they specify that:
The indicated speed must never be less than the actual speed, i.e. it should not be possible to inadvertently speed because of an incorrect speedometer reading.
The indicated speed must not be more than 110 percent of the true speed plus 4 km/h at specified test speeds. For example, at 80 km/h, the indicated speed must be no more than 92 km/h
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United Kingdom
A speedometer showing mph and km/h along with an odometer and a separate "trip" odometer (both showing distance traveled in miles).
The amended Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 permits the use of speedometers that meet either the requirements of EC Council Directive 75/443 (as amended by Directive 97/39) or UNECE Regulation 39.[11]
The Motor Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2001[12] permits single vehicles to be approved. As with the UNECE regulation and the EC Directives, the speedometer must never show an indicated speed less than the actual speed. However it differs slightly from them in specifying that for all actual speeds between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the vehicles' maximum speed if it is lower than this), the indicated speed must not exceed 110% of the actual speed, plus 6.25 mph
Click to expand...
 
Can we have confidence that the electronic tacho is accurate? if so, then on the quoted gearing 70mph is 4,000rpm - thats the nominal motorway speed limit in Blighty?
So, if the speedo is indicating 130mph & the tacho isn`t showing ~7400-7500rpm then its out...
 
The factory quotes the 961 torque as 80nm, that is ~59 ft/lbs in the old money, & rather less than the 66.4 ft/lbs reported by C.W.,... rubbery figures?
Anyone want to try the old 5252 calculation, see if it adds up TQ/HP-wise?
 
J.A.W. said:
I gleaned those performance figures - 79hp @ 6,500rpm ; 17.5 mph/1000rpm in top - from the Oct `10 , Cycle World intro - ride [not test, - still not tested].
Click to expand...


J.A.W. said:
C.W. also listed the 961 as having max torque of 66.4ft/lb @ 5,200rpm. Factory figures are now higher? The factory also lists dry weight as 452lbs [same for all models,superlight carbon fibre wheels/brembo brakes, on tricked up one - notwithstanding] , previously in this thread it was - 414lb, typo maybe?
Click to expand...


Those old power output figures were certainly around long before production even started-so I expect they were simply carried over from the Dreer 961 SE prototype. However, a lot of of subtle changes have been made for various reasons since then (some out of necessity to meet EU compliance and US emission regs.).
 
Well, for a 1hp gain [& 7 ft/lb loss] - requiring another 1,200rpm - on a 79mm stroke mill is quite a change, new cam/ECU map, at least...
 
J.A.W. said:
Well, for a 1hp gain [& 7 ft/lb loss] - requiring another 1,200rpm - on a 79mm stroke mill is quite a change, new cam/ECU map, at least...
Click to expand...

I only said that I had seen 130 mph on the speedo, I assume that it is probably reading at least 5% high that is why I said that it was an indicated reading! I'm not really bothered if it's out and I won't be going to the trouble of proving with a video etc. I have only seen this once as this is not what the 961 is about but I'm always curious to see what it will do if the conditions are right. However it will reach around 120 mph(indicated) quite easily and I have seen that many times, the acceleration is good enough to keep up with similar modern twins like the Ducati Monster but I've not seen any official figures. I have even used it on a trackday at Silverstone last year and the performance and handling was good enough to keep up with most road bikes apart from the real extreme versions.

Although I have only done 5,000 miles in the last 2 years that is mostly in the summer so there is no point in equating that to 50 miles per week. I have also got 5 other bikes which include a 1975 MK111 Commando, MV Agusta Brutale 1090RR, Ducati Panigale S, so I don't use the 961 every week even in the summer! Infact I rarely use any of my bikes from November to February when the roads are salted except when we get a dry day and the temperature is above 8c. If I was living in Australia or LA then I would be using my bikes all year round but in the UK I don't enjoy winter riding, in my younger days I had no choice!
 
J.A.W. said:
Has anyone else noticed that this thread attracts hits rapidly, & in markedly significant numbers?..
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Guess we all like talking and reading about the 961 :D Lets face it most of what can be said about the 750's and 850's must have been said by now.
Perhaps it's time for the 961 to have a forum of its own now ?
 
JAYMAC said:
J.A.W. said:
Well, for a 1hp gain [& 7 ft/lb loss] - requiring another 1,200rpm - on a 79mm stroke mill is quite a change, new cam/ECU map, at least...
Click to expand...

I have also got 5 other bikes which include a 1975 MK111 Commando, MV Agusta Brutale 1090RR, Ducati Panigale S.....
Click to expand...

A little off topic, but I'm curious of your impressions of the Panigale....my buddy just bought one and is heading up to my part of the state next month for a weekend of riding.
 

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