Trouble at Mill

camshaft said:
I suggest you go to the factory and see for yourself, as a journalist I would expect objectivity and going to the source of a particular story, not picking up gossip.
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Jim, I've been trying to get a statement from the factory for weeks.

I'm afraid new evidence suggests that it's not just a few individual customers not getting their bikes, more than one European dealer deposited a serious amount of money for stock which they have not received. Their deposits have not been returned.
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All hearsay until you prove otherwise. Rumors will sink a company as quickly as bad management.
 
All hearsay until you prove otherwise. Rumors will sink a company as quickly as bad management.
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Yes couldn't agree more, which is why I query the motives of some of the comments about Norton on the internet , not neccessarily this forum . It's very easy through social media to bad mouth someone or some organisation and mud sticks, how can you tell that some comments are not commercially motivated?

If you think about it what a great business model, long queue of buyers, deposits or full price paid up front, demand outstripping supply, great brand name, very little competition, happy customers.
 
If you think about it what a great business model, long queue of buyers, deposits or full price paid up front, demand outstripping supply, great brand name, very little competition, happy customers.
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The only thing left out of that list is government regulation and maybe some over cautious bankers. Why can't we get all that stuff out of the way and just ride?

Dan.
 
I hope I didn't hijack the thread here with my comment. What I meant to say is: Why can't a guy get the money it takes to build a motorcycle and then just build it and deliver it? There are a lot of chopper shops and independent builders who do that. It seems to me that there is more going on here at Norton than that. People are talking about going through millions of dollars. For what? Does Norton have to own a string of dealerships before they can sell a bike? If there is not government regulation in the way then I am missing something here!!
 
Garners Norton reportedly entirely redesigned (and retooled ?) the whole bike to be metric - all metric threads, etc (why ?). That would have cost a bit. And getting the approvals to sell ain't cheap either. Not to mention premises, Advertising, advertising, advertising....

As a business model, as someone said, Hinckley Triumphs and Mr Bloor just quietly set up the whole business, and then started selling the bikes. Mr Garner seems to have done it the other way around. !

At an interview at the recent TT, shown on the square box, Mr Garner sure was a talker.
All the right racing phrases and marketing phrases and selling phrases - although it sounds like his heart is in the right place.
Shame he doesn't have the ready $$$ needed to make it all happen though....
 
Have been reading this thread with interest after always following the rebirth of Norton (including previous attempts) and Triumph alike, , just a pity there isn't someone a bit closer to the source/factory/Garner that could shed some more light.
Regards mike
 
motorson said:
I hope I didn't hijack the thread here with my comment. What I meant to say is: Why can't a guy get the money it takes to build a motorcycle and then just build it and deliver it? There are a lot of chopper shops and independent builders who do that. It seems to me that there is more going on here at Norton than that. People are talking about going through millions of dollars. For what? Does Norton have to own a string of dealerships before they can sell a bike? If there is not government regulation in the way then I am missing something here!!
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I think most of the chopper shops and such sell their bikes as special construction, and don't have to jump through all the government hoops for emissions requirements, safety, hazardous materials, etc., etc. As I recall, trying to get the bike approved for all the myriad of regulations the US insists on was a show stopper for Kenny Dreer and company.

Ken
 
If it's all about passing U.S. regulations, why is Norton still taking deposits or insisting those who have partial deposits pay in full? If your vehicle can't pass homolagation regulations you probably have ceased building the bike in its current form, anticipating changes needing to be made. Regardless, U.S. regulations do not affect deliveries outside the U.S. It's my understanding some bikes have been delivered. This being the case, they must have passed regulations.These nondeliveries have been as much as two years and running. This is in countries outside the U.S. as well as the U.S. Considering all the information, not company PR flak, I'd speculate Norton is out of M-O-N-E-Y. If Garner is looking for investors, that's good. Deposits on new bikes are not investments in a company, They are an upfront placement of cash in exchange for a delivery, in this case, of a new Norton.
 
It's my understanding that UK regulations allow a limited number of new-build machines to be licensed after each bike has passed a rudimentary inspection by the authorities. This is known as Single Vehicle Approval and is not the case in other EC countries where whole vehicle Type Approval is rigidly applied; no EC Type Approval - no licensable bikes in any EC country, except UK.
I believe that US Type Approval includes a long-term emissions test requiring the machine to complete several thousand miles to a strict, observed, schedule and to meet emissions criteria at both beginning and end of the test. This type of testing obviously costs a lot of money and time and cannot be economically viable for companies manufacturing in penny numbers. In the interim, I believe machines not having US Type Approval may be imported and used on public roads providing a Bond is lodged and the machines exported again in two years or less. There may be a limit on the number of such machines that may be temporarily imported.
My personal opinion is that the US market may never see permanent-import licensed 961's this decade.
 
JimC said:
I'd speculate Norton is out of M-O-N-E-Y. If Garner is looking for investors, that's good. Deposits on new bikes are not investments in a company, They are an upfront placement of cash in exchange for a delivery, in this case, of a new Norton.
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Along with all the other issues, its been obvious since day one that M-O-N-E-Y was in short supply with this venture - no need to speculate !.

And the press is full of such stories, including getting gov't grants and loans etc - and its been mentioned here how many times now. ??!
 
Following is the link to Pt.2 of Peter's talk from the 2010 Norton Rally in Lumby, B,C. Canada. Peter Howes is the man behind Norton Canada. At aprox 4' 30' into the video he explains how the down payments in Canada are protected by Ontario's legislation and the money is held in trust. I would imagine the trust account would still be a form of collateral for the securing of other loans though. I'm not a financier, can the trust funds be locked in for a period of time?

Trouble at Mill


It's clear these players are in as deeply in their pockets as they are in their hearts. In today's business world people are more prone to trip you than extend a helping hand. Has anyone mentioned conspiracy theories yet? :D Lets see, the video talks about all the triumph guys that were stole from triumph.... or lets see... a billionaire business tycoon with a few politicians in his pocket who in turn have some EPA executives in their pockets :
a) doesn't like the colour of his tie
b) who's great grand dad never won a race in the 40's because he was always beaten by a Norton
c) doesn't like Garner's religious beliefs
e) plans to buy the venture at 10¢ on the dollar after it goes bust

It's a real life saga that we read about in the papers or see on tv coming out of hollywood. Guy slides off a cliff but his friend just catches his hand and there he is dangling. The friend doesn't have the strength to hold him, cut to close up of hands slipping to fingers, then it happens he falls, but wait! His back pack snags on a crocked old tree growing from the side of the cliff...

written by Willy Makeit and Betty Wont.
 
One wonders what Peter Howe would say today, two years on, having had nothing to import so far.

How many of the original team he hailed in the video are still there? Simon Skinner never was chief engineer of the 675 project, though he was with Triumph before he joined the Donington setup.

As for the 700cc rotary Howe mentions, that has died a quiet death. So has "Norton's own V4 racing engine" (see "Motor Cycle News" many moons ago) that now turned out to be a secondhand Aprilia engine in a modified secondhand rotary racing chassis in this year's TT trainings.

Lack of funds has been the problem from Day 1, as the old hands in the industry predicted. Hope and enthusiasm only go so far- one needs three figure millions to get things under way from scratch, see Triumph. Unfortunately, suppliers eventually insist on payment of their invoices, as does the workforce. This is a highly competitive, shrinking industry- as far as new luxury motorcycle sales go- which gives little return on investment even to those factories who are successful in the marketplace. Personally, I would not buy shares in any motorcycle manufacturer these days, as much as I want to see Norton's rebirth happen.
 
The ' D. B. ( David Brown ) series Aston Martin had a two year waiting list at one stage .But mates rates were plus a thousand pounds , as the company, Aston Martin ,
was the longest surviveing manufacturer who had never made a profit .

Philanthropists , etc , stand in line , wheres the current Lady Houston .

Paris Hilton should have a few bucks spare .
 
MATT , you are right as she funded Maverick Vinales in Moto GP 125 cc series last year, Someone should pull up to her door on a Norton and take her for a ride.!!!!
Regards Mike
 
Brooking 850 said:
MATT , you are right as she funded Maverick Vinales in Moto GP 125 cc series last year, Someone should pull up to her door on a Norton and take her for a ride.!!!!
Regards Mike
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Do you think a classy chick like that would fall for such an offer?

:mrgreen:
 
"classy" is not the adjective that comes readily to mind when I think of Paris Hilton......... Tastes and perceptions differ I guess.
 
The reason for my reply was that ,who was the smooth bugger that persuaded her to part with her cash for Maverick Vinales, Norton at Donington need him on their payroll, with some young hotshot poster boy rider on the 961 when they go and visit her You just never know your luck!!!
Regards Mike
 
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