The P11 thread

[blacklotus99]

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[grandpaul]

Welcome, blacklotus; nice bike, too bad the paint on the gas tank seems to have been marred by super-adhesive tape...

Windy (bill) is one of the people who can give you most if not all the answers you need.

 

[BillT]

Nice find. The bike is a '67. P11s are the only ones with the bridge between the shocks. Later bikes had the bridge on the fender loop.

As a '67, you would have the large black tail light/license plate assembly.

Forks would not have buffer springs, and could be hazardous on the street, unless converted. Read further up the thread, I retyped what is found in the owner's manual concerning the forks.

Bike would have come from the factory with a distributor and coils, not a magneto. Many of the early bikes were raced, so the magneto may have been the personal choice of a PO for whatever reason.

Fender should end just ahead of the brace its bolted to. The seat pan is contoured, and does the mudguarding up to the oil tank, which wraps around the tire. '67s would have a plain alloy fender which looks like what you've got.

Gauges should be grey face - 8000RPM tach (3003/00) and 120MPH speedo (3001/00) with no trip function, except many owners swapped out the 3001/00 for the 5001/00 with trip function.

If you send in a request to the NOC, they'll send you a factory record, which will contain whatever information the factory had on this bike, which may only be serial number and despatch date. cost is 10GBP. a 122727 serial would likely be May or June of '67. My G15CS is 800 numbers later and was despatched in July.

 

[blacklotus99]

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[skipsoldbikes]

Excellent find! You may want to reconsider keeping the mag. When correctly rebuilt, it will give you years of reliable service. Other than the occasional checking of the points, & lube, you will probably wont ever need to perform any other service. Most mag failures are due to capacitors & armature coils. A mag doesent need a battery to work & will not usually just quit, whereas an electronic unit typically needs a battery & when they go, they go right now, without warning.
Don't get me wrong, I like progress & some of the new stuff, I run an electronic voltage regulator, halogen headlamp bulb, all other bulbs on my bikes are LED, but I woulnt replace my mag, they have never failed me . If you do decide to replace the mag, let me know, I would love to buy it from you

Good luck on the project, it looks like a fun one !!!

 

[worntorn]

I don't think anything from that era is on par with the Commando for smoothness. Not any US or British stuff, certainly not the Jap bikes I rode back then. They were the worst with this horrible tingling vibration. Hondas would start off smooth then tingle as the revs climbed. Two stroke kawis, yams and Suzukis just vibrated all over. We didn't mind because we were young and resilient.
Never tried the BMW or Moto Guzzi, from that time, but I doubt they were as smooth as the Commando.

I have read a couple of accounts which claimed the Atlas engine shook much less in the hybrid frames than in the Featherbed frame.


The fellow who sold the mk3 850 to me used the funds to complete a couple of restorations, an older 500 triumph mostly for show and, to replace the Commando for riding, a bonneville t140 oil in frame. After riding the Commando for five years he found the vibes of the t140 to be unbearable.

Glen

 

[Hobot]

Its now known the intense vibrations give long term damage to nerves and vessels and connective tissues. The only one I know that configured his P11 to stand as daily commuter on Calif. freeways was Tom Davenport of Phantom Oil fame who adapted rubber mounted handle bars off a err a , a H---a.

Phantom Oiler Table of Contents
Phantom Oiler Presents: Photo Features of Vintage High ...

World's Straightest Commando
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Matchless style 71 Commando
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http://www.vintagenet.us/phantom/

 

[blacklotus99]

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[grandpaul]

Vibration is a relative thing. Relative to a Commando, it will exhibit more vibration (that's why they tried the whole isolastic thing).

Doesn't make it a bad bike. Why not service it and ride it? That will tell you everything you need to know.

 

[Paul W]

Nice project you have there Blacklotus. I have a part number somewhere in my files for the rear mudguard and I will check it out for you.

You asked about an ignition switch? It should be fitted to a small bracket just ahead of the battery tray on the L/H side.

If in doubt about your clocks I can recommend Gaggs of Nottingham UK who repair and supply magnetic Smiths items and know all there is about them.

Your side stand is not the correct item but it appears to hace the correct bracketry so if you can live with it thats fine.

All the best and keep us posted,
Regards, Paul.

 

[blacklotus99]

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[BillT]

Thanks Paul. I dont recall seeing the ignition switch in front of the battery cover but will check it out. It may be that the switch was removed when the magneto went on? If this was a comp bike that would make sense.

Yes that side stand is like the one I had on the commando. Was told the original one twisted and broke so will seek out the right one. Will put it on the list of Walridge stuff if they have it.

Curious to know what tire sizes fit on the P11. The book says 3.25 x 19 and 4.00 x 18. Would that translate to 90/90/19 and a 110/90/18? There are K70s on it now but assume they are old. Would the Avon Roadrider give the best grip on tarmac or are there better options? What about in a enduro tire from metzeler or others?

I used the Avons on my Ranger. Speedmaster 3.25-19 on the front (AM6) and Safety Mileage MKII 4.00-18 on the back (AM7). These tires are available today and work pretty well.

The side stand is an Atlas part 03-4048. I needed the entire assembly which I got from Norvill for about 90GBP.

If you look carefully, you can see the ignition switch in the pick below, with the key in it:

Those are also the Avon tires on the bike

 

[Bernhard]

[quote="blacklotus99"


I used the Avons on my Ranger. Speedmaster 3.25-19 on the front (AM6) and Safety Mileage MKII 4.00-18 on the back (AM7). These tires are available today and work pretty well. quote


The whole of tyre technology has moved on since the 1960s- everyone has their favourite tyre, you might like to try, for the tarmac, the METZELER ME33 front and ME1 rear sometime.
the ME33 can be obtained with the Com K race compound to special order and about 33% more expensive than the standard front.

 

[blacklotus99]

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[grandpaul]

I like the Dunlop 501 GTs...

 

[BillT]

Here are two pics to show the difference between a P11A and Ranger rear fender (mudguard):

Above is a Ranger fender. It attaches to the bike at 5 points - 1 at the front, 2 at the high point, 2 at the rear of the frame loop.

This is a P11A fender. It is cut off at the front edge of the arched brace on the frame loop. The seat pan of a P11A is fiberglass, and shaped to perform mudguard duties from the front of the fender forward to the oil tank, which wraps around the tire.

A P11 fender is different yet. The seat is shorter, but also with the fiberglass pan, so the arch support is actually on the frame between the shock mounts rather than on the loop. This means the fender is about 3" longer, and made of alloy rather than chromed steel. They found the alloy fenders fatigue fractured around the bolts, so switched to steel during the P11A run. Any cracked fenders on the early bikes were replaced with steel - same goes for the front fender, which stayed alloy through most of the P11A run. You can see cracks around some of the holes on the P11A fender. My Ranger fender had cracks around every hole, which I brazed up before having re-chromed. Fender is mounted with rubber washers between fender and frame tabs - no cracks yet.

My frame loop has a beefier-than-stock arch support, done by a previous owner. The original arch is maybe 18- or 16-gage steel, and also susceptible to cracking, either at the welds or around the bolt holes. My piece is made from 1/8" bar stock.

 

[blacklotus99]

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[batrider]

The bracket was part of the fender and does go on the outside. The chrome front fender on my late G80CS had been bobbed and I ended up buying a stainless steel fender and making my own bracket for it out of stainless. Flat stock for the bracket and the rivets came from McMaster-Carr. Very easy to make this bracket.

 

[BillT]

Thanks Bill. This is very useful info. I have just ordered one for the P11 from Walridge.

Looking through some of the P11 images Ive collected in recent weeks there is a great set on the yahoo group board. This one shows the P11 short fender. Is this the correct one for the single seat?

[

Yes, that's the correct fender for a P11. You can see in your pic how the brace is on the back of the frame - later bikes don't have this because the seats are longer.

Mike should have the brace for the front fender. It rivets to the outside of the fender with 6 rivets. It should be cad plated painted silver to look like cad. I think he sells it separately because it can be then riveted to either a alloy or chrome fender, depending on your preference. Originally, the mudguard was sold with the bridge riveted to it, and is listed in the parts book as '027025 - front mudguard assembled - P11'

As I stated above, P11s should have alloy fenders, front and back, but chrome fenders are fine because many of the originals cracked off and were replaced by chrome back when the bikes were serviced at the dealer.

 

[Paul W]

Thanks Bill for posting the photographs, they have been very useful and I am now convinced that I need to get the correct rear mudguard/fender for my Ranger as mine ends at the loop.
Are these rear mudguard/fender available? They look very similar to a Commando profile? If so can they be modified to suit?
All the best, Paul.