STRIPPING . . . . . an 850 MK3 engine

olChris · Aug 12, 2014

click said:
john robert bould said:

LAB,
It's imposible to instruct someone over the internet how hard to hit some thing...after many years it comes naturaly..

Click to expand...

I think, in the interest of the forum, you should go off for a few weeks and figure out how you explain to guys like me how hard to hit something a bit like:

Enough to crack an egg
Enough to dent a car
Enough to release the front crankshaft sprocket on a Norton Commando!!

Having used hammers from 2lb-4lb all my life (Ret'd B/Maker). I can assure you and others with nil hammer skills that its not how big it is but, "How you use it".. As you may all be aware that is one of life's fundamentals.
IMO a 4lb hammer (not a sledge) with the appropriate application of oxy/act, puller and a direct hit would have done the job..

Yes i know "hindsight is a wonderful thing".. But thats my contribution.

john robert bould · Aug 12, 2014

We should'nt recommend the use of a hammer when removing taper fit sprockets etc!! A puller is designed to part the two items WITH OUT FORCE BEING TRASMITTED TO OTHER PARTS.
In this case the crankshaft/bearings/crankcase. Whoolping away a hammer is not the correct method...i would recommend getting a stronger puller.
Sykes made a hydraulic assortment... its the old story...not got the correct tool...smack it with a hammer!

dero · Aug 12, 2014

Too late now ....But Locktite have a product called freeze & release in a spray can , I have found it very good .

Matt Spencer · Aug 12, 2014

john robert bould said:
LAB,
It's imposible to instruct someone over the internet how hard to hit some thing...after many years it comes naturaly..

Now Now .
If you drop it on your toe and jump two foot , its Not Enough .

If you drop it on your toe and jump four foot , its just right .
and ,
if you drop it on your toe and jump six foot , its To Much .

cjandme · Aug 12, 2014

Applying the shock to the puller/crank/sprocket via a hammer is the right method , wether the puller is loaded hydraulically or mechanically, shocking it is an important part of the equation - (imho) . Glad you were ableto seperate it successfully,

auldblue · Aug 12, 2014

A wee impact wrench at the local garage might be worth a shot!

J[/quote]

Thanks, I might try that later after I use some TNT :mrgreen:[/quote]
HOPE YOU DIDNT DO THIS.[/quote]

NO, thought better of it, could only end in tears . . . . . . . mine :lol:[/

I think you are right guys, talking bull as usual? But why not Derek ?

J

Hobot · Aug 12, 2014

Main worry on impact loads on crank is putting slight flats on the bearing rollers so if resorting to impact it implies the bearings need renewed anyway. Sometimes, especially if steel surrounded by ally its better to heat the center very hot then wait a minute for heat to flow out of center to surround to release the bind. I've had to do this on other engines by welding a stick to a stud remains then just gloved hand twist out. Still as in this instant case generally a number of heating shocking cooling cycles gradually gets it off, with some pixie dust deposited by sneaky shoe elves too.

gripper · Aug 12, 2014

I have struggled with this a couple of times. What worked for me was to load up the puller, apply some heat, then a smart tap on one end of the bar that forms the puller i.e.. outboard of one of the small nuts. Bingo. (Prepare to catch the bits)

auldblue · Aug 12, 2014

3/4 drive impact wrench set on max torque easy meat!

click · Aug 12, 2014

Hi auldblue,

I was not trying to insult anybody, so apologies if you took offence

I've never used an impact wrench so my comment was based on my lack of experience with such a tool and my expectations that it would end in tears :roll:

As I said in all my comments I thanked everybody for their suggestions.

Are we all good?

auldblue said:
A wee impact wrench at the local garage might be worth a shot!

J

Thanks, I might try that later after I use some TNT :mrgreen:[/quote]
HOPE YOU DIDNT DO THIS.[/quote]

NO, thought better of it, could only end in tears . . . . . . . mine :lol:[/quote]

And why exactly would it end in tears? Seriously I would like you to enlighten me.

J[/quote]

click · Aug 12, 2014

Took the day off today from tinkering with the engine!

As always the information supplied from all you guys has been an education, some interesting products/methods mention which I'll use when I strip my next Norton :lol:

Once again thaks for all the comments both critical & positive.

More Anon

kerinorton · Aug 12, 2014

cjandme said:
Applying the shock to the puller/crank/sprocket via a hammer is the right method , wether the puller is loaded hydraulically or mechanically, shocking it is an important part of the equation - (imho) . Glad you were ableto seperate it successfully,

I TOTALLY AGREE. IF YOU APPLY TOO MUCH PRESSURE WITH A PULLER, YOU ARE LIKELY TO PUILL THE THREADS OUT OF THE PULLEY/SPROCKET. THEY INVENTED TAPERS FOR A REASON. THEY DONT FLOGG LOOSE. COMPARE THE CRANK SPROCKET WITH THE CLUTCH HUB. SEE THE DIFFERENCE. THE CRANK SPROCKET WONT COME LOOSE. THE CLUTCH HUB ENDS UP FLOGGING OUT BECAUSE IT CAN NEVER BE TIGHTENED ON PARALLEL SPLINES.
DERECK

PS THE TAP WITHTHE LARGER HAMMER AND THE TAPERED PUNCH HAS GOT TO BE AIMED AT THE RIGHT PLACE. yOU HAVE TO IMAGINE YOU ARE TRYING TO DISTORT THE FEMALE TAPER [ IE SQUEESE IT ] TO MAKE IT POP OFF. THE SMALLER THE HAMMER THE MORE YOU WILL END UP RIVETING SOMETHING. SMALL HAMMER SAR USED TO RIVET BRAKE LININGS ON BRAKE SHOES BECAUSE THAT ACTION IS TO SPREAD THE RIVET TO HOLD THE LINING ON THE SHOE. IF A BIG HAMMER WAS USED FOR THIS, THE LINING WOULD BE SQUASHED. THATS HOW YOU WORK OUT WHAT SIZE HAMMER TO USE. THE IMPORTANT THING HERE IT HITTING THE RIGHT SPOT. USUALLY CLOSE TO THE KEYWAY IF I REMEMBER RIGHT.

auldblue · Aug 12, 2014

I stand suitably corrected and will never mention impact wrenches again but remember at one time it was thought that the sun revolved round the earth and the moon was made of cheese! And what size and type of hammer do you need to join a four inch canvas drive belt?
J

Matt Spencer · Aug 12, 2014

How can it revolve around the earth , when the Earths Flat ! . :mrgreen:

E = Mc sqared or something . judiciously applied BRUTE FORCE , as in a Light Tap with a Large Hammer is
going to get a better ' ring ' than a big tap with a little hammer . This was verified on the Titanic .

The old Heat & differential expansion - patience & CRC etc . Particularly with archeological ( RUSTED ? FROZE ) suckers , Indeed .

Such as leaving the puller on for a week , with the occasional application of heat followed by CRC etc - periodically . THREE BLOWS
and go away before you stuff it , generally holds . As does a reasoned application of ' moment ' - angle of the ' TAP ' .

And we all know how you hold the brain cell when freeing stuck bolts / studs etc - " positive Mental Attitude " visualiseing result and drawing to that conclusion . Often a ace with a disc grinder or hacksaw can liberate the salvageable pieces by sacrificeing the useless .

Heavy pitting corrosion often means it unfit for service - so ' the Scalple ' isn't injurous . Mind the eyes though . and don't start with ' will it ' ,
use ' It Is ' .

click · Aug 13, 2014

Me again!! :mrgreen:

Stripping this engine is like watching a Hammer House of Horror episode (cheesy 80's UK horror show) you know they're going to frighten you but you keep watching :roll:

I label these pictures "hmmmmmmmmm sludge!"

My optimistic side is saying at least its covered in something hopefully stopping corrosion, time will tell!

Anybody have the number for one of those major companies who sort out oil tanker spillage's :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

toppy · Aug 13, 2014

Matt Spencer said:
john robert bould said:

LAB,
It's imposible to instruct someone over the internet how hard to hit some thing...after many years it comes naturaly..

Click to expand...

Now Now .
If you drop it on your toe and jump two foot , its Not Enough .

If you drop it on your toe and jump four foot , its just right .
and ,
if you drop it on your toe and jump six foot , its To Much .

The last person who built my engine back in the day had a much simpler method of selecting what was obviously his favourite if not only tool.

If you can't lift the hammer with both hands it's PROBABLY to big!!!!!

click · Aug 13, 2014

toppy said:
Matt Spencer said:

john robert bould said:

LAB,
It's impossible to instruct someone over the internet how hard to hit some thing...after many years it comes naturally..

Click to expand...

Now Now .
If you drop it on your toe and jump two foot , its Not Enough .

If you drop it on your toe and jump four foot , its just right .
and ,
if you drop it on your toe and jump six foot , its To Much .

Click to expand...

The last person who built my engine back in the day had a much simpler method of selecting what was obviously his favourite if not only tool.

If you can't lift the hammer with both hands it's PROBABLY to big!!!!!

:mrgreen: Good one, I might print that out & put it in the workshop

The more I strip this engine the more I think it's a low milage engine from a wreck which has been lying in a breakers yard for a LONG time. Everything I've taken off so far seems in very good condition, even the pistons & bore (which I still need to measure!) look good.

I'd say the engine has never been torn down, all the fasteners look virgin.

Maybe all this is wishful thinking, I'll get back to my sludge clean up!!!

john robert bould · Aug 13, 2014

OMG! watch out for swamp dwellers!

Hobot · Aug 13, 2014

Well you are lucking out with the swampy muddy oil coating preserving from oxygen similar to dinosaurs found in tar pits. One of my favorite tools I still have from '70's to get covers and case screws out is also big hammer impact powered for fragile fastener preservation ...

john robert bould · Aug 13, 2014

Put the lot in the wifes dish washer :lol:

STRIPPING . . . . . an 850 MK3 engine

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