Steering dampers

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johnm said:
Hahaha.

I plead guilty.

Many many many years ago my Commando was my only transport. It lived in the rain and holes in the exhaust were literally repaired with wire and baked bean cans.

These days both it and I live in an heated double glassed house and we do not ride in the rain. If necessary the DR 650 can get wet.

But I figure the Commando and I can live in a little comfort and add a few bits of totally unnecessary bling because I can. :)

I'd very happily be 35 again but if I can't then at least 50 plus years of work can buy some cool bits.
Click to expand...

Same for me, I remember blowing the end of one of the peashooters clean off and having to borrow one from my mate as I couldn't afford a new one , now I've probably got 4 or 5 complete exhaust systems (different configurations) in the garage.
 
About this time last year i overtook a van and when coming back over the centreline/rumble strip for the first time in 37 years of Commando ownership had a pretty impressive head shake. The chap in the van, who i knew, patted me on the back later and commented on how impressive it looked.
I thought at the time perhaps a steering damper wouldn't be a bad idea, with all my usual haste it is still on the list - but getting closer now :)
 
Fast Eddie said:
IMHO, we are talking at cross purposes again, as usually happens with this subject.

YES: A properly set up Norton does not need a damper. And YES they do ‘handle just fine‘ … 99% of the time. But the one time you hit an unexpected series of bumps at speed whilst leaned over, it might save your arse.

Hence I refer to it as a safety net, or insurance. Of course I don’t need it most of the time, but on the occasions I do, I’ll be glad it’s there.

But that’s for my riding style, on the roads and tracks I ride on. No one is arguing they‘re compulsory…
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If it is the case that 99% you don't need a steering damper on a commando
Then surely that would apply to just about any motorcycle?
 
baz said:
If it is the case that 99% you don't need a steering damper on a commando
Then surely that would apply to just about any motorcycle?
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I think it does Baz. On the road at least, I believe they’re fitted to protect when that 1%er hits…

Cos even if it’s only 1% of the time, if it kills you, you are still 100% dead !

But as I keep trying to say, even that only applies to certain riders. I’d argue that a Commando thats always ridden within the speed limits is never gonna get into a slapper, (almost) no matter how badly set up !
 
Fast Eddie said:
I think it does Baz. On the road at least, I believe they’re fitted to protect when that 1%er hits…

Cos even if it’s only 1% of the time, if it kills you, you are still 100% dead !

But as I keep trying to say, even that only applies to certain riders. I’d argue that a Commando thats always ridden within the speed limits is never gonna get into a slapper, no matter how badly set up!
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Hmmmmm food for thought
I didn't like the old Kawasaki type one I had fitted before
But I'm almost convinced to try a newer version after reading some of these posts
My Norton is far from standard with increased trail, extra iso ,braced swinging arm light weight wheels
Frame set up on a jig
It doesn't do any of my previous commandos antics but you never know!!!
Cheers
 
Coincidentally, this weeks MCN talks about steering dampers.
They basically talk about them as a safety aid rather than a performance mod. Describing them as ‘as important as ABS’…

Steering dampers
Steering dampers
 
My experience - FWIW:

I had a steering damper on my bike at one point in time. I did have the 40 mph weave in my bike.

It really didn't solve the problem, and left a nice witness mark in the top of my fender....

A few things that I have noticed that do affect the weave are:

1. Front tire pressure - do not over inflate. Running at 24-26 psi works well and helps with cornering grip. When I was younger (and dumber), I used to think that running at max recommended on the side of the tire was a good thing.... live and learn....

2. Both tires being the same diameter - many folks have gone to an 18" rear wheel, and a tire that is smaller in diameter than the stock 19" as a result. I have an 18", but have up-sized to a 120/90-18, which is identical in diameter to the from 100/90-19.

3. Optimal isolastic clearances - I have "vernier" isolastic adjusters (actually have more in common with a micrometer, but oh well...) I set them by feel to have them adjusted with the minimum amount of clearance.

4. A head steady that limits transverse movement to a minimum - Call it what you will, "Dave Taylor" type, what ever. I built mine back in 2003 (copied it from what Buell and HD used), and noticed better precision and handling immediately.

Riding at any speed, I have no noticeable weave at all. If I take my hands completely off the bars a 60 mph, there is a minor oscillation, but it does not increase in magnitude (no resonance). At 70 mph, no oscillation, can ride no hands with no issues.

Like I said - for what it's worth.
 
Derek Wilson said:
My experience - FWIW:

I had a steering damper on my bike at one point in time. I did have the 40 mph weave in my bike.

It really didn't solve the problem, and left a nice witness mark in the top of my fender....

A few things that I have noticed that do affect the weave are:

1. Front tire pressure - do not over inflate. Running at 24-26 psi works well and helps with cornering grip. When I was younger (and dumber), I used to think that running at max recommended on the side of the tire was a good thing.... live and learn....

2. Both tires being the same diameter - many folks have gone to an 18" rear wheel, and a tire that is smaller in diameter than the stock 19" as a result. I have an 18", but have up-sized to a 120/90-18, which is identical in diameter to the from 100/90-19.

3. Optimal isolastic clearances - I have "vernier" isolastic adjusters (actually have more in common with a micrometer, but oh well...) I set them by feel to have them adjusted with the minimum amount of clearance.

4. A head steady that limits transverse movement to a minimum - Call it what you will, "Dave Taylor" type, what ever. I built mine back in 2003 (copied it from what Buell and HD used), and noticed better precision and handling immediately.

Riding at any speed, I have no noticeable weave at all. If I take my hands completely off the bars a 60 mph, there is a minor oscillation, but it does not increase in magnitude (no resonance). At 70 mph, no oscillation, can ride no hands with no issues.

Like I said - for what it's worth.
Click to expand...
Personally, I’m not talking about fitting a damper to cure such weaves. I would always assume that such weaves would be due to deficiencies somewhere.

I don’t know, but I suspect a damper might make such weaves worse because the resistance would cause a delay in ‘feel’ which might lead to over compensating ?

For me, their value is as insurance against a tank slapper.
 
Hi ,
I think in my original question on steering dampers I was wondering why they were so common on bikes up to the end of the sixties but was then dropped from most new bikes.
 
Alan L said:
Hi ,
I think in my original question on steering dampers I was wondering why they were so common on bikes up to the end of the sixties but was then dropped from most new bikes.
Click to expand...
Yes but the you followed up with the observation about hydraulic dampers on Japanese bikes, and not pommel ones, which is what the bulk of answers have been related to.
 
Coming back to the original question, friction type dampers area really poor (but cheap!) solution, since they have high static friction or stiction, meaning that it takes quite a lot of force to get them to move, but then the friction drops, so it needs less force to continue. This is the opposite of what you actually want, i.e. low initial friction and higher friction when moving.
Hydraulic dampers do this very well, which is why no-one fits friction dampers anymore.
 
SteveBorland said:
Coming back to the original question, friction type dampers area really poor (but cheap!) solution, since they have high static friction or stiction, meaning that it takes quite a lot of force to get them to move, but then the friction drops, so it needs less force to continue. This is the opposite of what you actually want, i.e. low initial friction and higher friction when moving.
Hydraulic dampers do this very well, which is why no-one fits friction dampers anymore.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sorting fact from friction :-)
 
SteveBorland said:
Coming back to the original question, friction type dampers area really poor (but cheap!) solution, since they have high static friction or stiction, meaning that it takes quite a lot of force to get them to move, but then the friction drops, so it needs less force to continue. This is the opposite of what you actually want, i.e. low initial friction and higher friction when moving.
Hydraulic dampers do this very well, which is why no-one fits friction dampers anymore.
Click to expand...
Also I think the older bikes that came fitted with friction type steering dampers were for people fitting sidecars?? Maybe
 
baz said:
Also I think the older bikes that came fitted with friction type steering dampers were for people fitting sidecars?? Maybe
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Also it was the fun factor of tightening up your mates friction damper and watching him try to pull away (so I'm told)
 
I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but many motorcycle racing organizations require all race bikes to have a steering damper. Might be a reason for that.

Caveat: I don't have steering dampers on most of my street bikes, including the Nortons, but I also don't think they are a bad idea, as long as they are installed properly and not set too tight. In general, I don't think they are usually needed for bikes with conservative geometry, but definitely a safety feature for bikes set up with steep rake and short trail numbers for quick turn-in, like most modern race bikes. My preference is for the modern rotary design dampers, but they can be difficult to fit to the older bikes.

Ken
 
baz said:
What vw are we talking here? A beetle has a steering damper
Click to expand...
No. The discussion was about steeribg dampers for Comandos. Some distinctly non Norton applications were discussed. Comparing anything else with a steering damper to a Norton is a red herring. Like saying a Norton needs a turbo timer.
 
Fullauto said:
No. The discussion was about steeribg dampers for Comandos. Some distinctly non Norton applications were discussed. Comparing anything else with a steering damper to a Norton is a red herring. Like saying a Norton needs a turbo timer.
Click to expand...
I understood the sentiment I was just pulling yer chain!
I'll get me coat ;)
 
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