Steering damper tips ? A.N. TUV ODM 500 .

Al,

You give every impression of never reading replies, or not appreciating what their telling you, but I'll do it anyway. There are two very silly comments in this latest post:
"She thinks I might crash and be severely injured - that just cannot happen." Case proven, I'm with her.

"Riding on public roads does not teach you much". Seriously? Riding swiftly and safely as you read the road ahead, requires great skill. In fact, to do it really well probably requires a broader range of skills than riding fast on a circuit you have learnt, with all the traffic going in the same direction :) . Plus, you get to somewhere new at the end of the ride!
 
Mart UK said:
Al,

You give every impression of never reading replies, or not appreciating what their telling you, but I'll do it anyway. There are two very silly comments in this latest post:
"She thinks I might crash and be severely injured - that just cannot happen." Case proven, I'm with her.

"Riding on public roads does not teach you much". Seriously? Riding swiftly and safely as you read the road ahead, requires great skill. In fact, to do it really well probably requires a broader range of skills than riding fast on a circuit you have learnt, with all the traffic going in the same direction :) . Plus, you get to somewhere new at the end of the ride!
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I agree with most of that.

I might also agree with some of Als point this time.

Riding on the track IS different. You are SO close to the edge of your abilities, you’re on the track with a pack of others in the same frame of mind and are only touching distance away from some of them, you’re braking as late as you dare, cornering as hard as you dare, every single moment. You are SO close to failure at every moment, a few wrong inches, a split second, is all it takes to fail. You’re at 9 tenths CONSTANTLY for 20+ mins at a time, it ain’t easy, your brian has to work very hard indeed. Your body does too.

Most of us go for a road ride to relax… you don’t do that on the track! But you do in a way, track riding is oddly meditative as you’re forced to shut all the other shit out of your mind and absolutely focus on the here and now.

Personally… and I’m being serious here… I believe that track riding is great brain exercise. It keeps a part of the brain going that would otherwise rot away after the age of about 30. It’s the same part of the brain that gets used if boxing / kick boxing etc. It’s probably a very fundamental / primeval part of the brain associated with survival, and is a part of the brain that most of us old farts with comfortable life’s would otherwise seldom (never?) use. It definitely exercises the brain in fast decision making, reactions, etc.

Well… one thing is for sure… you can tell it’s winter and I’m missing it already 🤣
 
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Fast Eddie said:
I agree with most of that.

I might also agree with some of Als point this time.

Riding on the track IS different. You are SO close to the edge of your abilities, you’re on the track with a pack of others in the same frame of mind and are only touching distance away from some of them, you’re braking as late as you dare, cornering as hard as you dare, every single moment. You are SO close to failure at every moment, a few wrong inches, a split second, is all it takes to fail. You’re at 9 tenths CONSTANTLY for 20+ mins at a time, it ain’t easy, your brian has to work very hard indeed. Your body does too.

Most of us go for a road ride to relax… you don’t do that on the track! But you do in a way, track riding is oddly meditative as you’re forced to shut all the other shit out of your mind and absolutely focus on the here and now.

Personally… and I’m being serious here… I believe that track riding is great brain exercise. It keeps a part of the brain going that would otherwise rot away after the age of about 30. It’s the same part of the brain that gets used if boxing / kick boxing etc. It’s probably a very fundamental / primeval part of the brain associated with survival, and is a part of the brain that most of us old farts with comfortable life’s would otherwise seldom (never?) use.

Well… one thing is for sure… you can tell it’s winter and I’m missing it already 🤣
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Absolutely. I did somewhere around 7 or 8 events at Spa, 3 days with on average 5 or 6 sessions each day before I realised that there were quite a lot of buildings on the inside of one of the faster corners. I asked the other blokes I was riding with, none of them had noticed them either! While the trackway events are (obviously) not as competitive as a race, the fact that you go out as part of a very large group (max 100) of riders who have various levels of ability and experience does make sure that you are really concentrated on what you are doing. Fortunately, after the first few corners, the field gets spread out enough so that it does not get crowded (and it's a bloody loooong track as well!), but unlike events in the UK, there was no real effort to sort people into fast / slow groups, so you had quite a mixture.
Last time I was there though, they were using transponders and reassigning people into new groups after the first 2 sessions, which should help things.

But yes, it's very addictive.
 
Steering damper tips ? A.N. TUV ODM 500 .
 
Craig said:
I installed damper when I installed JRB fork upgrades , I liked the improved feel of front
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Craig said:
I installed damper when I installed JRB fork upgrades , I liked the improved feel of front end ….
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Craig,
I am not familiar with JRB fork upgrades.Could not find them.Do they have a site?
Thanks,
Mike
 
Steve Harris (of Harris Performance) used to say that EVERY motorcycle should have a quality steering damper fitted. His logic being that there is zero downside, but it may just save your life one day.
 
robs ss said:
You could minimise the chance of frame damage by, once you have determined what height on the downtubes is best, making grooves (file/dremel) in the bracket to match the tube diameter/position. It is the "horizontal" part of the angle bracket that gives the fore/aft strength.
Cheers
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I like this idea and will do .
 
acotrel said:
My mate is still champion in one of the historic road race classes. When I mentioned the steering damper to him, he said the damper was only there to compensate for bad handling. I suggest any motorcycle above a certain power rating can be pushed into a tank slapper. If Norton had fitted a damper to the first Commando, it might have become excellent. Peter Williams designed the steering geometry of the first Commando, probably based upon Tom Arter's Wagon Wheels, which I believe was a Seeley Matchless. Whatever - when the kid's started crashing the Commandos, PW got embarrassed. If they had fitted an hydraulic steering damper, it might have fixed the problem. However Norton probably thought it would have demonstrated that their bike did not handle. So they changed either the yokes or the rake, probably to get less trail. Increased trail is good, but can have a downside at high speed.
I suggest it is an old way of thinking about handling. When Joey Dunlop was racing, he used to adjust the steering damper as he rode.
When you ride road bikes, you rarely ride them near the limit - however when you race it is common practice to ride at that level, regardless of what grade rider you might be. When you lose the front or the rear, you simply cope with it.
When the first Commandos crashed, they had usually been ridden over cat's eyes in the wet.
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BULLSHIT

1. You refuse to listen or learn. Peter Williams first laid eyes on the Commando at the Earls Court Show, along with the rest of the public. He did not even work or ride for Norton at the time. He DID NOT design the commando frame, which you consistently "suggest, suppose, presume" he did. You are the only one who asserts that "kids crashed Commandos because of Peter Williams " . Nobody "crashed " Commandos. There was a recall of early frames because of a weakness, which had nothing to do with PW, the well publicised "widowmakers", but people weren't going around crashing them left, right and centre as you continually try to tell the world.

2. Wagon Wheels was NOT a Seeley

3
When the first Commandos crashed, they had usually been ridden over cat's eyes in the wet.
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WTF???
 
Mart UK said:
Al,

You give every impression of never reading replies, or not appreciating what their telling you, but I'll do it anyway. There are two very silly comments in this latest post:
"She thinks I might crash and be severely injured - that just cannot happen." Case proven, I'm with her.

"Riding on public roads does not teach you much". Seriously? Riding swiftly and safely as you read the road ahead, requires great skill. In fact, to do it really well probably requires a broader range of skills than riding fast on a circuit you have learnt, with all the traffic going in the same direction :) . Plus, you get to somewhere new at the end of the ride!
Click to expand...
One of the things which peeves me about our Australian education system is that many things are based upon supposition and imagination. University professors endow students with professional qualifications for a fee. Where do they get the information they teach to kids in university ? Most of them have never had real jobs. - Yet they decide who is COMPETENT ! In Australia students usually incur a debt for their education - what do they get for their money - a better-paying job ? - And we wonder why we have administrative problems.
 
If you are a road rider and want to race - what you have seen from outside the fence is nothing like what actually happens when you are on the circuit, There was a guy years ago who won a 12th on the IOM in about 1948 on a rigid frame Triumph 500. He told me - 'when you first start to race, force yourself to go slow'. When I started racing I found out the reason. I know I am lucky to be alive - but I improved. Some people don't. Racing is much safer than road riding, except for the first time you do it. I have had 3 mates who were all racing car drivers. They gave up cars for motorcycles because they thought it might be cheaper. Every one of them crashed heavily almost immediately and stopped racing, In every case, when they were told, they never listened. They were experienced and knew better. - SUPPOSITION !
 
Seeley920 said:
BULLSHIT

1. You refuse to listen or learn. Peter Williams first laid eyes on the Commando at the Earls Court Show, along with the rest of the public. He did not even work or ride for Norton at the time. He DID NOT design the commando frame, which you consistently "suggest, suppose, presume" he did. You are the only one who asserts that "kids crashed Commandos because of Peter Williams " . Nobody "crashed " Commandos. There was a recall of early frames because of a weakness, which had nothing to do with PW, the well publicised "widowmakers", but people weren't going around crashing them left, right and centre as you continually try to tell the world.

2. Wagon Wheels was NOT a Seeley

3


WTF???
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John, read your own strap line! You know it makes sense!
 
I was involved in writing a public document - guide to managing risk in motor sport. On my computer, screen saver is my old racing photos. When I look a myself in those photos, - If I was running a race meeting, I would allow a guy who had a bike which looked like that, to race.
 
SteveA said:
John, read your own strap line! You know it makes sense!
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Peter Williams specified the steering geometry for the first Commando. I did not say he designed the frame. No racing motorcyclist would ever design a frame like that. It was obviously designed by a car guy, and the stupid crank balance factor came from the same source. It was about competing with the CB750 for smoothness.
As a road bike, the Commando was good for it's time, but it cannot be anything else. For racing, a 650SS would be much better.
In early road racing in Australia, around 1960 - a Manx with a good rider was almost impossible to beat in Allpowers A grade races. But a good guy on a 650SS could win. The Atlas 750 was even better - but nothing was cheap.
 
acotrel said:
Peter Williams specified the steering geometry for the first Commando. I did not say he designed the frame. No racing motorcyclist would ever design a frame like that. It was obviously designed by a car guy, and the stupid crank balance factor came from the same source. It was about competing with the CB750 for smoothness.
As a road bike, the Commando was good for it's time, but it cannot be anything else. For racing, a 650SS would be much better.
In early road racing in Australia, around 1960 - a Manx with a good rider was almost impossible to beat in Allpowers A grade races. But a good guy on a 650SS could win. The Atlas 750 was even better - but nothing was cheap.
Click to expand...

I rest my case
 
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