starting techniques (2012)

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Matt Spencer said:
Last Bit , Remarkable how fast you do it stalling / cutting sitting at a traffic light .

Very true!

This is my post-rebuild start-up with a re-ringed motor; new everything (coils, plugs, battery) withTrispark ignition, timing set static only, but turned out to be within a couple of degrees due to Trispark design being so easy to set up.
No air slides fitted (I always take them out) and flooded carbs.

I'll be amazed if the next one is as co-operative ( I was rather suprised with this one... :roll: )

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQGQ8uK-pYM&feature=g-upl[/video]
 
YAHOO
we have ignition!!!! new plugs , new leads , a bit of a tickle , 1/4 throttle and 2nd kick she fired up
thanks for the all the advice
cheers
 
hi guys i thought i posted a reply yesterday but i must have stuffed up as i was abit excited !!!
i started up the old girl yesterday [that the norton guys] new leads new plugs and a new battery 2nd kick bang off we went !! :D
so how did i do it well abit of a tickle turn her thru then ignition on 1/4 throttle 2 kicks , i will try with no throttle next time due to the posts here but hey its all fun thanks for the advice/opinions
cheers 8)
 
My starting technique.

Turn on both fuel taps
choke on(flatsides)
build compression/suck in fuel
turn key to 'on'
say three hail marys
kick the living crap out of it.
reverse three hail marys with three other words that delete the three hail marys

repeat process 5 times.

comes to life. I smile. warm up motor for two minutes. wipe off sweat.
say three hail marys
attempt the lift and push process off center stand
reverse three hail marys with three other words that delete the three hail marys
2nd attempt to lift and push process off center stand and make sure bike doesn't fall down, while running
sit on bike, wipe of sweat, forget to lift side stand, make sure no one saw me
put on helmet, gloves, jacket
Enjoy the next two hours
 
Last few trips to Eureka Springs Trixie gets cheers pulling in and shutting off and again on just step on start or some times when I let roll off 15-ish mph and let clutch out in 2nd. Had one showing of rough low throttle use and 3-5 kicks to fire, then cleaned the plugs from the chug a lugging required in Victorian streets made for wagnons. Last time even had a HD catch up to me at a stop to say how funny my slur, "Hey ya know what Thumb Commensors are known for don't ya? >>> Lowering One's IQ >>> Varrooomm. I said thanks its was fun and how good his Harley looked to be told yeah but mine was the Coolest in the crowd. An ego hit of course but I know better its all about the bikes and its dam hard to top a well fettered Norton Commando.
 
After being bitten one too many times by my Boyer, I got a Sure-Fire. After 4 days, over 200 kicks, and checking everything over and over, no joy. I mean, not a nibble. I noticed in the Pazon instructions that the unit wanted to see 100 RPM at startup. I did a quick, sloppy calculation and it was clear that even when I was not tired, I was not getting 100 RPM per kick. For one thing, I had moved my kick lever about 15 – 20 degrees back so that my foot did not hit it. I was probably only able to get about 50 degrees of rotation per kick. The Boyer was happy, but maybe not the Pazon. I had a lever from Commando Specialties.

http://www.commandospecialties.com/Prod ... ProdID=173

So, I installed it, reset everything back to average, and on the 4th kick, I got a roar.

I seems that the Sure-Fire wants to see a full kick on a cold startup. And, with the combination of Sure-Fire and the longer lever, my foot and leg are so happy, I'll swear I can see them smiling.
 
Dang Diablouph maybe that's why me and Wes couldn't get a SureFire to fire but a couple coughs to tease us till broken down dudes that went back to points. Wes and I ain't wimps or new to swift full swings so not happy to read swifter kicks needed yet.
 
Ive got crappy old Boyer on there and there is no starting procedure, just give it a kick any old way and it goes. Rarely takes a second kick to do it, cold or hot. I keep reading about how bad the Boyer is, but it just works so well on the Commando, cant see a reason to change.
The only reason might be the low voltage estart problem, should I ever fix the sprag.

Glen
 
worntorn, the only reason I went for the Sure-Fire was kickback. If it would have been nice to me, I would not have left her for another ignition.
 
100 Rpm, that's 2 rev/sec roughly. How hard is that to come by? I never had any problem getting my SureFire going, but then I give it a full kick through 2 compression strokes. But when it's warm, it just takes a push.

Dave
69S
 
I kick through 2 times with throttle WFO before I turn the key on to actually start.I'm starting first time most of the time.Am I actually doing anything or just fooling myself?
 
kicking through with or w/o ignition on, still counts as kicks to onlookers and kicker, so does not count as one kick ease impression. I always first kick with ignition on as most often it fires right up and less wear of cold turning w/o oil pressure. I've also tried kicks after a tickle w/o the key on to more often get no joy - which I think may be d/t the first turning sucking the initial tickle richness right out the tail pipes. But these are Commandos and what works one day and moon phase may not the next moment.
 
100 Rpm, that's 2 rev/sec roughly. How hard is that to come by? I never had any problem getting my SureFire going, but then I give it a full kick through 2 compression strokes. But when it's warm, it just takes a push.

Seems, for me, that the combination of being tired, short rotation, and shorter lever slowed down the kick just enough to deny me a light. Now that I have an ignition that is not like a rabid dog, I make sure the first kick or two is done in earnest.
 
I'm going to dig this thread up as it has been a fantastic read for me as I have my Dad's Norton 750 commando back from inspection, and its kicking my arse trying to cold start her

It doesn't help I spent 2 months bedridden in hospital, so I have lost some muscle and strength, so kicking her over is a good workout enough as it is! haha

But the tips in here have been fantastic, I cant pick my dads brains to see how he got about starting it but I am piecing things together, but I do have a question:

The bike doesnt have a choke or decomp lever, just the "Ticklers" on the twin Amal carb's - from dead cold (its winter here now) how many "tickles" should I be giving each carb? 2 each? 5 each? 10 each till its squirting fuel out into my hand? haha, I've no idea and so far trial and error has produced the most random results, so if I can learn some general limits I can fine tune my trials, and then work out the individual foibles for this particular bike as I get used to it in general
 
I believe a common misunderstanding is that WOT gives you the most fuel.
Wrong - with the slides up the velocity over the jets is lowest giving you the weakest mixture.
If you want the richest mixture - as in cold - then leave the throttle fully closed.
Open the throttle judiciously in order to slightly weaken the mixture if required.
I believe the only place for WOT when kicking is to clear a flooding scenario.
Cheers

Edit - the above assumes you don't have a "pumper" carb. Even then, a quick twist to squirt some fuel, then the above advice is still relevant.
 
Hi all,
I was a little surprised to read one contributor say they use ‘a little choke’. With original Amal’s I believe it would be all or nothing for unless the choke slides are all the way down they won’t affect the mixture at the small throttle openings used in starting. I doubt that unless it is extremely cold conditions that the choke is needed at all.
My method, quite straight forward, ignition on, flood carburettors if anywhere near cold, one gentle push on kick starter to prime and one serious kick from compression with a small throttle opening to start. It should run cleanly from the second it fires. As a rule i believe you a better off with a richer mixture than a weaker one.
But now the lecture! Our bikes should start first or second kick, hot or cold, with the correct technique. If you are having difficulty it is either your technique or a problem with the bike. Do not put up with bad starting, there will be a fix.
My day job involves attempting to make money out light aeroplanes, no easy task. Such is the fragility and cost of aviation starter motors and batteries that I begrudge every crank an engine does before starting. Watching an inept pilot winding away on a start when it should fire first or second compression is like tearing up $20 bills.
Take note of what works and then repeat it. Throttle opening is critical, most basic carburettor engines (plane and bike) will not start with too much throttle (unless flooded).
Difficult starting is possibly a sympton of a larger problem that is also affecting your bike through all it’s operations. Weak spark obviously springs to mind.
Do not fall into the belief that your bike is just hard to start. You shouldn’t need to screw the starter off it’s spindle, a firm businesslike kick should be all that’s required
al
 
Just hold the ticklers down till fuel comes out, then give it a big kick and just slightly open the throttle as you kick and it should fire up, but you also got to learn the trick of kicking a Norton, sometimes it takes time to master the technique of kicking a Norton to life, but you will get there, they are so different to kicking any other bike and having the pistons in the right place for the kick, first kick for the day will be the hardest with a big swing on the kicker and once started for the day its a lot easier with less effort, its all a learning curve.

Ashley
 
Theres actually A FEW tecniques , according to conditions , time of day. location, etc .

FIRST , ENGAGE THE KICK START . Then leap skyward .

if you KICK it into engagement , likely itll chip / wear / break the pawl / pin / cog . due to SHOCK LOADING .
Whereas pre-engaged ( sounds familiar - The Solinoid modern starter ' pre engage ' avoids the howling & whineing of old )
The effort can be better directed ! . Clutch freed , pistons pre positioned - maybe just before T D C for greates momenum through to compression .
If its souped up .

From Cold , in the snow , frost , winter etc , Fully Flood Carbs - via tickler - till the fuel is evident .
Ignition OFF , push / swing / turn over , say 4 compressions - to lube bores & prime cylinders ! .

Then as above , Switch ON before the leap skyward .

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Coming in of the highway on a warm day & stopping for five minutes is the tricky one .
Fuel off parked & itll of boiled / evaporated . Fuel on parked And it mayve stuck a needle & drowned !
Which is why parked near uprights safer. From that aspect anyway .
Say if We've , had the taps off . a ' 1/4 ' tickle or 1/3 is about right .

Say its a count of 6 from dry to tickler wet , a count of two ( each ) has to have got fuel in .
Maybe push a cylinder through for luck , and Ign ON , swing it over .

If it catches on the SECOND compression , its telling you something .
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The Tooned Bonnevil , in these conditions , no preliminary swing , fired on the THIRD compresion ,
as Id swung back into the saddle, with the arm likewise opening the monoblocks WIDE .
the mind already on how many efforts id need .
With the old lady from the village dead aft . Megas , and plate glass store front behind .

The store front shook . Not sure the old lady was ever saw again .


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Dittoish , but it sat for ten or more minutes , so the initial heat ' bloom ' upward has disapated
and the engines about uniform heat , cooler than when run hard . o_O

Likely a touch 1 or 3 on the ticklers , maybe 1 left 3 right to broaden the bet , Ign. on and
swing her over without further preliminarys is about right .

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Say from re ringing , youd ' plugs out ' swing it through a dozen or two times to even out the oil .
Generous with the prime as per the oil . But not mega flooded to wash bores .
Which is why overticklings avoided .
Particularly with no air filters , If the carbs are alight - W F O & kick like an olympian ,
to draw the flame inside . Or it can get as far as your feet & youll need to jump up & down .

Gauze velocity stacks are ' flame traps ' , but overflooded ( petrol OUTSIDE theyre not infallable.

As this pertains to pre ' fully assembled ' start ups, it bears mention .

The Olde POINTS IGNITION , the cover plate off , in the pitch black , will show you the wonders of its function. or otherwise .
Spark leaks from plug leads , caps, coils , HT & LT too .

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Most people retract the side stand before indulgeing in starting so as not to wrench it out by the roots .
Practise make perfect the leap & balance . If its High Comp. Or well sealed .

Leant slightly left itll go upright as you leap/swing . The Difficulties if your on gravel and your feet slip
so as it leans the throotle opens after youve engaged first and its moved forward so the clutch is engageing also .

So we usually switch on the brain and disalow abstractions & distractions . And check the path aheads clear before we pull in the clutch & put er in gear .

This can avoid shooting across a two laner and bringer her up after youve settled , on the lawn on the far side . Excluding concrete walls .
 
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