Spray Coppercoat Gasket Sealer?

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Mart UK said:
Is there a knack to removing Wellseal? I had a hell of a job getting gasket and Wellseal off my rocker covers. Plus, very difficult to avoid dropping bits into the cavity. I tried rubbing with degreaser, petrol and carb cleaner and it resisted all attempts. Two hours of frustration. Unless there's a suitable solvent, I don't plan on using Wellseal again.
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Acetone seems to work well. Never considered Wellseal hard to remove. Permatex #3 Indian Head stuff on the other hand...
 
If I run into surface imperfections from removing stubborn gaskets I install the new gasket with a coat of permatex 85420 Permashield, It's just like loctite 518 but it's ment to be used with gaskets and has the advantage of being a gap filler along with allowing the gasket to be removed and reinstalled for repositioning or for covers that need to be removed occasionally like primaries, the only down side is it's blue in color so it's conspicuous. Loctite 518 is ment for metal to metal surfaces like flanges or case halves.
For case halves I like to use Yamabond or permatex 29132 Motoseal ( permatex version of Yamabond white )
 

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worntorn said:
Is Yamabond a silicone type sealer?

Glen
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Worntorn,

I never checked the spec sheet on yamabond but I believe the original white or grey was a solvent base elastomeric like permatex motoseal which makes it gasoline resistant once the solvent flashes off.
 
For the crankcase joint it's nice to use an anaerobic type sealer.
The material that squeezes inward stays in a semi- liquid state. The material on the joint faces sets up and tends to make a very good seal.
Eventually the internal squeezeout from anaerobic sealer is harmlessly dissolved by the motor oil.
The squeezeout from sealers that are not anaerobic will set up firm.
Silicone based sealers are the worst, but other types have this potential issue as well.
If these little bits of sealer break off
in the future they can plug oil passages and do a lot of damage.

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
For the crankcase joint it's nice to use an anaerobic type sealer.
The material that squeezes inward stays in a semi- liquid state. The material on the joint faces sets up and tends to make a very good seal.
Eventually the internal squeezeout is harmlessly dissolved by the motor oil.
The squeezeout from sealers that are not anaerobic will set up firm.
Silicone based sealers are the worst, but other types have this potential issue as well.
If these little bits of sealer break off
in the future they can plug oil passages and do a lot of damage.

Glen
Click to expand...
Very true. With the solvent based elastomers it's important to use very sparingly and if used correctly it's the best on the market due to it being an elastomeric it's impervious to vibrations even if the fasteners loosen a bit.
 
I always used either Copper Coat or aluminum spray paint to seal solid copper head gaskets. The composites seem to do ok dry. Red Hi-tack on one side for paper gaskets. More difficult to clean up when changing, but changes come less often. Yamabond or Hylomar for the case joint.
Permatex gasket remover will turn any paper of fiber gasket w/sealer into soft goo that can be easily scraped off.
 
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worntorn said:
For the crankcase joint it's nice to use an anaerobic type sealer.
The material that squeezes inward stays in a semi- liquid state. The material on the joint faces sets up and tends to make a very good seal.
Eventually the internal squeezeout from anaerobic sealer is harmlessly dissolved by the motor oil.
The squeezeout from sealers that are not anaerobic will set up firm.
Silicone based sealers are the worst, but other types have this potential issue as well.
If these little bits of sealer break off
in the future they can plug oil passages and do a lot of damage.

Glen
Click to expand...
No, Threebond isn't silicone, and it is designed for cases, I don't know if that means it is anaerobic, but I have only ever found traces of it where I put it myself!

It can be purchased packaged as Yamabond, Hondabond or Threebond... I would say if Yamaha and Honda use it, you should be safe with it.

Because I use it on a Norton I buy Threebond! :cool:

I don't use Wellseal on cases since discovering Threebond, but I do still use it in other places, for example my TTi gearbox filler plate does not have a gasket. Wellseal is non setting, which usually means I can pop the cover off look in and just pop it back on without having to clean up and reseal. Never had a problem removing Wellseal! If you can't wipe it off, brake cleaner will help you.
 
Thing is, you have to remember a lot of Brit bikes were owned by impoverished teens in the '70s and 80's before they assumed 'classic' status...
The sort of oiks who'd think nothing of levering joints apart with a screwdriver or hammer and chisel, and then wondering why the only way to keep a relatively dry joint was to trowel on the hermetite..
It's their legacy we have to overcome.
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Thing is, you have to remember a lot of Brit bikes were owned by impoverished teens in the '70s and 80's before they assumed 'classic' status...
The sort of oiks who'd think nothing of levering joints apart with a screwdriver or hammer and chisel, and then wondering why the only way to keep a relatively dry joint was to trowel on the hermetite..
It's their legacy we have to overcome.
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What are you trying to say ;) ;) ;) ;) don't forget getting the side case screw lengths muddled up and bursting the back of the casing out !
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Thing is, you have to remember a lot of Brit bikes were owned by impoverished teens in the '70s and 80's before they assumed 'classic' status...
The sort of oiks who'd think nothing of levering joints apart with a screwdriver or hammer and chisel, and then wondering why the only way to keep a relatively dry joint was to trowel on the hermetite..
It's their legacy we have to overcome.
Click to expand...
baz said:
What are you trying to say ;) ;) ;) ;) don't forget getting the side case screw lengths muddled up and bursting the back of the casing out !
Click to expand...
Fortunately, aside from the glued together assemblies, I seemed to have purchased a relatively unmolested motorcycle.
 
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The anaerobic sealer I mentioned is Loctite 518.
When in contact with air it remains like grease. Take the air away and it sets up to form a gasket ( crankcase joint)
It has good gap filling properties, iirc 25 thou.
The material that invariably squeezes in is dissolved into the oil.
I like it, but only for the crankcase joint . All others get Cometic nitrile rubber over Al. reusable gaskets whenever possible. Once you fit a Cometic gasket, you lose all interest in paper gaskets.
Copper spray on the head gasket has worked well.

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
The anaerobic sealer I mentioned is Loctite 518.
When in contact with air it remains like grease. Take the air away and it sets up to form a gasket ( crankcase joint)
It has good gap filling properties, iirc 25 thou.
The material that invariably squeezes in is dissolved into the oil.
I like it, but only for the crankcase joint . All others get Cometic nitrile rubber over Al. reusable gaskets whenever possible. Once you fit a Cometic gasket, you lose all interest in paper gaskets.
Copper spray on the head gasket has worked well.

Glen
Click to expand...
I like the idea of anaerobic sealants for the reasons you cited. The "Threebond" you linked says silicone liquid gasket.

I find these interesting for applications where repeated access might be necessary.

Fiberglass reinforced silicone gaskets Archives - JS Motorsport

JS Motorsport Reusable Gaskets You can tighten them down the same as paper gaskets and they won’t squish out like regular silicone. High heat tolerant and oil tight. Sealer unnecessary
jsmotorsport.com
 
Yes it is silicone, that is why I linked it. I have talked with folks who say they would never use silicone, but they use Yamabond, Threebond etc.
I've never used the stuff, but all of the descriptions of those sealers state they are silicone of one form or another. This was news to me as well.


Glen
 
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