spark plugs

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I used to think if it just sparked on time that was that. Not No More. Mostly depends on state of tune and perception of pilot, finer the tune the more plugs can be felt.
A really good plug can over come a fair amount of mixture issues quite nicely. Will have to taste the Autolite Greg altered us to.
 
AP 64 platinums at Walmart
Less than $5.00 for a pair.
Something like $4.49 a pair.
Seem to always be in stock.
They are working nicely in a low mileage combat.
I do feel a lil more kick in the pants as revealed by NorBsa. 8)
Marshal
 
Were KLG's any good in a commando back in the day?
I found an old set in my spares given to me when I purchased my bike from previous owner.
May have been orig. equipt from UK?
Did not find any Champions in the box just Champion marked plug wires.
Thanks
Marshal
 
There are those who still run them even though they have not been made for years. I would say just a bit better than Champions but some one might get mad about it, at least as good. KLG’s just look so good they just can’t be bad…No plating though and this can make them stick in aluminum threads. Maybe not so good today but back in the day…
 
Does anyone remember the rebuildable British Lodge plugs? Lodge listed the insulator, the electrode, the plug body (two piece), the arc arm and and two crush washers as individual parts. And you could vary the insulator/electrode for more or less heat range; talk about complication...Real collectors items these days.

My opnion is that with modern ignition getting the correct heat range is about all you need to do for relaible operation; I don't disagree with Hobot, but then he says his engine was way out of calibration (tired). The Surface Gap plugs Hobot showed a picture of are very common on two-stroke outboard engines that have coil outputs at or above 35Kv, and I also agree with whoever say that 20+Kv is enough, but the extra voltage is useful for keeping the gap clean, especially important in a two-stroke.

Back in the day when I worked at a Triumph dealer we used to take the British made N-3 and N-4 Champions out as part of PDI and pitch them for US made Champions, then they started to go down hill and would foul with very few (relative) miles on them. I use NGKs, Bosch and Nippon Densos; I wish that a US company would get in the game produce a quality product; maybe that is Autolite??

RS
 
Yes I still have some Lodge plugs in a box somewhere.

I used to curse Champion plugs but 10 years ago or more they changed owners and manufacturing plants completely. Since then I have had no problems with their stuff.

About the only thing a hot spark will do once the bike is running is cover up a poor fuel mixture. If mixtures are good then it doesn't require a hot spark to light the fire. I do like to use a hot ignition because when fuel and ambient conditions change the bike still runs good. A hot spark also helps starting when fuel mixtures often are marginal.

spark plugs
 
MexicoMike said:
"But can a bigger spark really increase performance or once fuel mixture ignites."

No it doesn'/can't. It takes X volts to jump the gap.

There's more to ignition than simply jumping the gap. It takes heat (energy, Joules) to ignite the mixture. The size of the spark, it's duration and energy content can have profound effect on the efficiency of combustion in the cylinder.

But adding a high performance ignition system to a stock engine in proper tune will do absolutely nothing as far as performance improvement is concerned.

Untrue. As a minimum, the RPM range that a stock (points) ignition can obtain is way lower than EI even with the same coil. And combustion efficiency affects both performance and fuel economy. Fatter spark is betterer.
 
Very true Dave, With the fuel injection I have the ability too adjust the ignition currant drive and dwell time with software as the bike is running. While you don't hear or feel much difference in how the bike is running on the dyno you sure can see the changes on the 5 gas analyzer. The CO and Nox readings tell the story about how efficiently the engine is burning its fuel. Jim
 
Every platinum plug (normal reasonably priced) is resistor type so just run copper wires and standard caps. You won’t lack for power with the proper coil and driver.
 
Can I run the resistor plugs like the AP64 with my original points and 12V coils setup? Right now I'm using the NGK BP8ES, but have not had it on the road yet. Starts good, good throttle response. I notice the N6Y don't seem to be available any more, but I have my old set. The heat range in these plugs seem to be all over the place. I am running it a bit rich with the 240 jet, but it never fouled enough to care.

Dave
69S
 
No mention here of IRIDIUM. Hmmm.....

For the past several months, my scooter has been a lil monster
I'm not sure what I did right, but I don't need more than 2/3 throttle to go like hell. But one of the changes I did make was to pull the old spec Champions, and replace with NGK iridium BPR7EIX. Hard to tell how long they'll last as I only have a couple hundred miles on 'em. Main thing is I am happy, and goin fast (fast enuf for me, anyway)
 
At the moment of discharge, the high electric fields between the plug electrodes induce electron collisions that begat more electrons (the so-called avalanche effect) that, within a few tens of nanoseconds, result in a violent hot gas. If the ignition system is undamped, and free to supply current to the electrodes, the discharge will continue well past the time needed for ignition and flame-front propagation. This condition results in several milliseconds of optical (the so-called "fat" spark) and high-frequency radiation. While it's satisfying to see in a dark garage, the "fat" spark is inefficient, as the flame-front has already propagated throughout the cylinder by the time the spark has extinguished. Moreover, the high-frequency radiation generated by the discharge disrupts some electonics (there is a large amount of energy radiated at 1 mHz, for example). To stabilize the discharge and limit its duration, resistive media was introduced in the 60's; in the high-tension wires, in the caps, and in the plugs themselves. This resistance, typically between 2 and 5 kilohms, has no effect at the moment of discharge. As the discharge progresses, however, it limits the current to a value below the ionizing holding current, and the discharge terminates more quickly, limiting the average radiation. Nearly all "exotic" material automotive sparkplugs (iridium, platinum, etc) contain an internal resistive plug of a few kilohms, and should not be used with either resistive wires or caps. These plugs are ideal for our bikes.

"Suppressor" plugs are a specialized type intended for weak CD systems, mostly marine, where the discharge voltage is relatively small, and a "fatter" spark is required. The discharge here is limited by an internal inductor. I don't see the application to motorcycle ignition systems.
 
Thanks for that Rick, I learned something from a plug thread wow.
What I know I found with a modified bike that had a problem going fast. It would hit a wall at 100 MPH in third gear on my Dyno hill and I was working with it. First I thought fuel flow changed petcocks made it just a little better, that Acell spark plug wires got ditched for solid copper a little better Than AP64's .035 gaps OK got red line had to shift to fourth 118 indicated wow big gain from a plug. I just have to live with the extra vibration.
 
Norbsa,

If you were running both resistive wires and resistive plugs before, you were likely limiting the discharge duration too much. I like the 0.035" gap, though. As long as your coils will support it, you'll get a bit hotter initial discharge. I'm using NGK Iridiums, which warn users not to jigger with the 0.031" gap. I'm pretty much a relaxed rider, but your story has got me thinking about widening the gap out a few thou.
 
DogT - N6Y now N6YC. (C = copper)

I get them from sparkplugs.com. Also for all the yellow bike people they have the equivalent Accel yellow plugs to match your bike. Back in the muscle car days the Accels ruled. Seemed the same as my Champions in my Combat.

The N7Y equivalent is Accel 113.

Russ
 
Rick,
The wires and caps were (non resister) came with the Accell coil, 8mm silicone and were just a year old; now a Dayna and copper wires had a small positive effect. The plugs were the real surprise I switched them back and fourth among three types that day all the same gap. I never would have caught on to this if I could not have kept it at full throttle in third gear that was the key. The differences at low speed were just annoyances really. In order to get the tuning right you need a hill that can challenge your bike enough to hit a wall, that is hit an RPM that is very hard to break through. It is only then that you find the key to real power most riders never use their bikes at this level it just is not needed on the street. Trying to do this at 110 on an X-way is non productive and too confusing . My bike will do 118 indicated with me sitting up in the wind about as good as I need it to do. More of a tuning thing than a speed thing cause 350 buzz bikes can wiz right by me. Once all this was done I could than go on to Main jet work holding long ten mile runs at very near full throttle to find the sweet spot. 250’s in mark two’s on my bike.
 
Rick,
Tell me more about the difference between resistor and suppressor spark plugs. My take was that the term "suppressor" was simply Autolights name for a resistor spark plug which suppressed RFI with a resistor to limit oscillations in the secondary circuit. Is this not so? Jim


Never mind, I have found that although some manufacturers call a resistor plug a suppressor plug, a suppressor plug is actually a plug with an inductor instead of a resistor to control RFI. Burn time and oscillations come out the same either way but the voltage is not reduced by the inductor as it is with the resistor.
 
Dog T, I still run old school points, 7mm stock non-resistor wires from old britts and AP 64's w/o any power issues.
Runs smooth when warmed and throttle response is excellent.
You could get AP 63 as well and try em they are like the NGKBPES 7's
AP 64's would be like going with the NGK 8's
Thee Marshal
 
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