Sleeve Gear Bearing Failure

Niagara850 · Jul 17, 2019

L.A.B. said:
I don't know. I'd guess it's right as it is. Not sure if you know but that "RS85" 2nd. gear isn't a genuine Norton part.

Interesting. I see references to it in 2014 in a forum search. The gears are in good shape. One of the bushes in the Sleeve gear had a tapered wear pattern, definitely need changing. I figured that it had been rebuilt before I owned it. When I did the layshaft bearing I found that the original Portuguese bearing had already been changed and now with the Sleeve gear bushes I removed were the longer Mk3 style. The PO couldn't tell me if it had been changed

Niagara850 · Jul 22, 2019

Next roadblock. Bearings and bushings replaced and gear cluster reassembled and have the inner cover back on. It shifts well thru the gears moving the quadrant up and down. When I put the Outer Cover on it will shift from neutral to first and up thru 2nd and 3rd but hits a false neutral when going for 4th and sticks. Moving the shift lever up or down doesn't do or move anything.

I believe I have the Gear Ratchet correctly assembled? Small gap between Gear Shift Pawl. It always shifted fine in the past.

I didn't disassemble the Quadrant and Cam plate as the Cam plate was resistant. I pulled the quadrant bolt to change the o ring. I am wondering if it slipped a tooth or 2. Can you tell by the Quadrant position? Don't want to pull it all apart again if I can help it.

Quadrant in 4th

Quadrant in 1st

motorson · Jul 22, 2019

Jim, have you found a mainshaft bearing with a brass cage? If so, what is the source and part number?

gortnipper · Jul 22, 2019

Did you pull the detent plunger, it might be stuck?

Niagara850 · Jul 22, 2019

gortnipper said:
Did you pull the detent plunger, it might be stuck?

Yes and cleaned it out. When I take the Outer Cover back off I can shift thru the gears by moving the Quadrant. Thinking the Quadrant isnt aligned properly or the ratchet isn't working properly. Leaning toward taking it apart and checking. The gear ratchet worked fine prior. I just cleaned it up.

gortnipper · Jul 22, 2019

Did you replace the kick start inner bush? When I replaced mine, i had to use a press to get it fully home, since it forms a bit of an airlock as it bottoms out in the shaft. Should be ~1/2" in.

Hortons Norton · Jul 22, 2019

It looks like the hairpin spring could be tight?? Did you pull the spring out?

Niagara850 · Jul 23, 2019

gortnipper said:
Did you replace the kick start inner bush? When I replaced mine, i had to use a press to get it fully home, since it forms a bit of an airlock as it bottoms out in the shaft. Should be ~1/2" in.

No, I didn't change it

Niagara850 · Jul 23, 2019

Hortons Norton said:
It looks like the hairpin spring could be tight?? Did you pull the spring out?

Actually it was looser. I tightened it up a bit and checked that it was in the correct way. It didnt work either way

btw thanks for the ideas guys

L.A.B. · Jul 23, 2019

Niagara850 said:
I didn't disassemble the Quadrant and Cam plate as the Cam plate was resistant. I pulled the quadrant bolt to change the o ring. I am wondering if it slipped a tooth or 2.

Without the gears and selector forks in place then I think the camplate and quadrant can be rotated enough for the teeth to come out of mesh.

Niagara850 said:
Can you tell by the Quadrant position?

I can't be sure, as the 4th gear photo isn't square-on and level with the quadrant and stud alignment position but it could possibly be one tooth out (quadrant too high)?

Hortons Norton · Jul 23, 2019

I seem to remember mine being closer to the top when in fourth gear, I also remember installing a new spring that I had to bend out a little because the hairpin spring was too tight.

Hortons Norton · Jul 23, 2019

A great read https://www.oldbritts.com/gearbox_a.html

Niagara850 · Jul 23, 2019

L.A.B. said:
Without the gears and selector forks in place then I think the camplate and quadrant can be rotated enough for the teeth to come out of mesh.

I can't be sure, as the 4th gear photo isn't square-on and level with the quadrant and stud alignment position but it could possibly be one tooth out (quadrant too high)?

Maybe this is a better pic. That's what I'm currently thinking. I was comparing to the Old Britts pic of the Quadrant and Stud in 4th. Looks close but slightly high? (my window is bigger). I compared 1st gear position as well. One tooth isn't far. Looks like I'm going back in.

Niagara850 · Jul 23, 2019

Hortons Norton said:
A great read https://www.oldbritts.com/gearbox_a.html

Thanks, I have been using it as a guide along with an old Mick Hemming's AMC gearbox rebuild pdf I found on the net and the Shop Manual. Fine tuning this is proving to be tricky. I'll play with the spring before taking it all apart again.

L.A.B. · Jul 23, 2019

Niagara850 said:
Maybe this is a better pic. That's what I'm currently thinking. I was comparing to the Old Britts pic of the Quadrant and Stud in 4th. Looks close but slightly high? (my window is bigger).

Yes, that's a better pic but I still can't be sure if it is off by a tooth or not?

Here's an old photo of my gearbox in the 4th gear position. Sorry it's a bit out of focus.

MichaelB · Jul 23, 2019

Here's mine.
Inner cover won't allow incorrect tooth mesh.

Niagara850 · Jul 23, 2019

MichaelB said:
Here's mine.
Inner cover won't allow incorrect tooth mesh.

Thanks, My window is larger. Comparing the Quadrant to the studs and bushings your 1st appears lower, 4th about the same

MichaelB · Jul 23, 2019

I think your Quadrant is fine.

gortnipper · Jul 23, 2019

comnoz said:
I doubt it, but I don't know for sure.

Maybe you should ask Redline.

I have been told it is the extreme pressure additive used in gear oils that attacks the plastics.

I got no response from Redline in the USA, so I sent their NZ rep an email and got this response back today.

"Here is the technical sheet statements from Redline oil

CORROSION PROTECTION
The extreme pressure chemistry used in many gear oils can be corrosive to brass and bronze used in synchronizers and bushings. Most gear oils are corrosive at temperatures of 200ºF. Red Line Gear Oils are non-corrosive up to 300ºF and the MTL in excess of 375ºF. A corrosive gear oil can shorten synchronizer life by half and can also contribute to rust problems.

SEAL AND LUBRICANT COMPATIBILITY
Red Line Gear Oils are designed to be compatible with seals which were designed for use with petroleum products. Reduced temperatures and improved deposit control should allow longer seal life. Red Line Gear Oils are compatible with petroleum and most other synthetics, so flushing is not required.

I have not seen plastics in bearings attacked by Redline oil."

Not fully comforting.

Niagara850 · Jul 23, 2019

MichaelB said:
I think your Quadrant is fine.

Thx I plan to fuss/adjust the outer cover hair spring/pawl mechanism more.

Sleeve Gear Bearing Failure

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