Shindengen (open type SCR) Regulator Installation MK II

I read recently, after buying an old Shindengen, that one of the DC wires should be wired in to the ignition switched live, so that turning off ignition stops the parasitic drain: the black wire on the Honda one I bought, which has green as earth and red as live.
 
I read recently, after buying an old Shindengen, that one of the DC wires should be wired in to the ignition switched live, so that turning off ignition stops the parasitic drain: the black wire on the Honda one I bought, which has green as earth and red as live.
I think you'll find that's what is called a "Battery Sensed" or "Signal wire" (or similar) regulator. I have one on my Morini (not a Shindengen) and the bike can be left for months without the battery draining.

Here is a great explanation on Rick's Motorsport page...


It just goes to a switched live connection, so that the battery voltage can be monitored. As you can see any disruption to that wire will cause the battery to overcharge.
 
From what Cliffa just said about battery sensing, I may be wrong, in the case of the Shindengen.

I had a “normal” reg/rec connected to the switched live once and switching the key off isolated the battery, but the alternator then directly powered the ignition and it kept running.
 
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I did exactly the same thing when trying to isolate the Vincent's Alton alternator from the battery. It was quite a shock to turn the ignition key off and hear the engine continue running.

To fix that problem I rewired things so that the Alton and reg are isolated from the both ignition and the battery when the bike is shut off.
I just used the headlight switch to interrupt the feed from the regulator to battery. That way I didn't have to add any switches or relays. It also reminds me to turn the headlight on before riding off. The Brightspark voltage monitor glares red at me until I flip the switch to turn on the headlight. Then it turns a happy green colour, once a few revs are added.
When the headlight switch is off, the Alton doesn't charge the battery. When the switch is on and engine running, it does charge the battery.
I always want to ride with the headlight switched on so that switch seemed a logical choice to use in order to stop any parasitic drain through a regulator.
I've been using it that way for 10 years or so now, no problem with parasitic draw.

Glen
 
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From what Cliffa just said about battery sensing, I may be wrong, in the case of the Shindengen.

I had a “normal” reg/rec connected to the switched live once and switching the key off isolated the battery, but the alternator then directly powered the ignition and it kept running.
Correct. Using the standard master switch doing its normal functions, you cannot isolate the charging system, not even the original bridge/Zener. There are two good/safe solutions to the drain (that I know of).

1) Of all the regulators tested here, only the Tri-Spark MOSFET is extremely low. There could be others. At least original setup, PODtronics, Shindengen, and Tympanium all have MUCH more drain but of course, it's not bad if ridden.
2) Disconnect the fuse when it is likely to sit any length of time. Of course, this eliminates the drain. It also is a safety measure. With 50 year old wiring, there is always the possibility of fire.

I do 1 & 2.
 
I read recently, after buying an old Shindengen, that one of the DC wires should be wired in to the ignition switched live, so that turning off ignition stops the parasitic drain:
Ok, now it would be interesting to know why Batrider (and possibly Fast Eddie) had this 2mA current drain through a Shindengen.
I used the SH775 for a few years. I bought it used for $35 from a Polaris dealer back when the series regulator craze started. Worked fine but I didn't like the ~2mA leakage current
 
I just recalled that I have newish Podtronics reg on the MK3 Commando and the reg is not isolated from the battery.
I haven't noticed that the battery suffers from parasitic draw during storage, but I should check to see if there is any draw there.
I seem to recall that Podtronics modified their regulators a few years ago ( probably 10!) to prevent parasitic draw.

Glen
 
We’re keeping score.

Batrider’s Shindengen: 2 mA

My AliExpress bargain: 0.8mA

My Boyer:
Can’t remember but it was too much.

TriSpark: Extremely low.

A Morini: Takes months.
 
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Well it looks like I did not need to isolate that Alton Podtronics reg afterall. The early reg that Alton supplied was a Chinese item. Later on he switched to Podtronics as he had a lot of customers complaining of regulator failure.
I guess he also wanted to solve the problem of parasitic drain.
I'm finding a lot of reasons to continue using Podtronics regs. I have six here now and zero problems.

Here is what John Healey, owner of Podtronics had to say when it was suggested that Podtronics have a parasitic draw. To be fair, I believe the really early versions, made before John owned Podtronics, do have parasitic draw.
I've always found that John's info is spot on.

John Healy
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Britbike forum member
Quite the opposite. We are currently suppling Podtronics rectifiers to Alton in France to replace a regulator they were using that will drain a battery if not switched.

Podtonics regulators do not need a switch and will not drain your battery.
 
I seem to recall that Podtronics modified their regulators a few years ago ( probably 10!) to prevent parasitic draw.

Glen
Possibly reduce but certainly not prevert. The one I tested was bought about 3 years ago and I know it was after the company was sold but I don't know how long it sat on the shelf.
 
We’re keeping score.

Batrider’s Shindengen: 2 mA

My AliExpress bargain: 0.08 mA

My Boyer:
Can’t remember but it was too much.

TriSpark: Extremely low.

A Morini: Takes months.
From a while back: https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/charging-system-leakage-current.31273/

So now:
  • OEM system, 0.2mA (MK3 not tested, besides Commando, Triumph Bonneville and Trident all tested the same)
  • PODtronics POD-1-HP, 0.66mA
  • Tri-Spark MOSFET, 0.005mA
  • Tympanium (from memory): 0.6mA
  • Batrider's Shindengen: 2mA (should be double-checked, 0.2mA more likely)
  • Triton Thrasher's AliExpress bargain: 0.08mA
  • Morini: ?
 
Well it looks like I did not need to isolate that Alton Podtronics reg afterall. The early reg that Alton supplied was a Chinese item. Later on he switched to Podtronics as he had a lot of customers complaining of regulator failure.


I’m fairly sure the leaky reg/rec Alton sold me was a Boyer. It did fail in service, fairly promptly.
 
From a while back: https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/charging-system-leakage-current.31273/

So now:
  • OEM system, 0.2mA (MK3 not tested, besides Commando, Triumph Bonneville and Trident all tested the same)
  • PODtronics POD-1-HP, 0.66mA
  • Tri-Spark MOSFET, 0.005mA
  • Tympanium (from memory): 0.6mA
  • Batrider's Shindengen: 2mA (should be double-checked, 0.2mA more likely)
  • Triton Thrasher's AliExpress bargain: 0.08mA
  • Morini: ?
Mine is actually 0.78 mA, now that I go back to my notes. Not totally negligible, in my judgment.

That TriSpark figure is negligible!
 
From a while back: https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/charging-system-leakage-current.31273/

So now:
  • OEM system, 0.2mA (MK3 not tested, besides Commando, Triumph Bonneville and Trident all tested the same)
  • PODtronics POD-1-HP, 0.66mA
  • Tri-Spark MOSFET, 0.005mA
  • Tympanium (from memory): 0.6mA
  • Batrider's Shindengen: 2mA (should be double-checked, 0.2mA more likely)
  • Triton Thrasher's AliExpress bargain: 0.08mA
  • Morini: ?
I'll try measuring some Podtronics here. One is isolated but the others are not.

Glen
 
Mine is actually 0.78 mA, now that I go back to my notes. Not totally negligible, in my judgment.

That TriSpark figure is negligible!
What we need is someone with a brand new Podtronics to test. I suspect that John Healy is saying that it will not quicky discharge your battery like the one Alton was supplying. I seriously doubt that he completely redesigned them to have little to no draw. Although technically possible not even Tri-Spark bothered to do that.
 
I rechecked my Shindengen just now to make my data official. It measures 0.86 mA on my Fluke 27. I checked the meter cal also and it is good. Battery voltage 12.86V.
Russ
 
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