RRussellTx - 1974 Commando 850 Project

RussellTx said:

No, following the book and I think that comes later.
The first side came apart super easy without removing the lower bolt so I think I'm ok to do it later.

That said, I may try that once I get it off the bike.

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You do understand, the book was written as a repair guide? And not a restoration manual for 50 years of rust/corrosion?

I get an assistant and several tools, starting with a screwdriver to wedge between the top of the spring and the bottom of the cap nut, till I can get a pair of vice grips on the damper rod. Once you can clamp that mutha super tight, you can knock the top nut free.

NO matter what, you MUST get the base bolt out FIRST. Then you can go in a few different ways.

1) You can undo the fork slider seal retaining nut (ring shaped doughnut on top of the slider) with a strap wrench, then try to shock the slider downward to pull it off the fork tube. This can be done on the bike since the yokes hold the fork tube without damaging them.

2) You can undo the fork top nut and pull the whole damper assembly out the top of the fork. Then use the top nut (as you know) to drift the fork tube downward out of the yoke taper. Take the fork tube and slider to the bench for further disassembly.

But none of it can be done without getting that base bolt off....

concours said:

You do understand, the book was written as a repair guide? And not a restoration manual for 50 years of rust/corrosion?

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Yep, I do...
I also understand that it's best to double check before increasing pressure to find the 'sufficient force" required to break things loose.
Apparently it was not trivial...

I stripped everything else off the frame and was able to invert the frame and hammer down on the fork to get it to release.

I now have everything stripped down and I'm starting to get everything organized into chunks so I can plan the work.

Also, one of my trips was down to my parents house where I was able to visit with my great uncle (owner of the bike) while I was there. He assured me that the bike was 100% functional and looked as goods the 'before' picture above. All of the corrosion and seizing up occurred while sitting in the garage. Father Time has no mercy...

One question about Frame coatings:

The frame has a fair bit of rust and corrosion areas so I will probably want to consider a new coating.

My question is about what is the preferred method? Powder Coating or Painted?
Is there a color code that should be used?

Also, is there a good way to refasten the number plate or is it best to just tape it up?

Thanks!

RussellTx said:

One question about Frame coatings:

The frame has a fair bit of rust and corrosion areas so I will probably want to consider a new coating.

My question is about what is the preferred method? Powder Coating or Painted?
Is there a color code that should be used?

Also, is there a good way to refasten the number plate or is it best to just tape it up?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Remove the plate, new fasteners are available.


You'll get 300 responses on paint vs powdercoat.
Paint is my choice, as it looks like it did when produced.

RussellTx said:

One question about Frame coatings:

The frame has a fair bit of rust and corrosion areas so I will probably want to consider a new coating.

My question is about what is the preferred method? Powder Coating or Painted?
Is there a color code that should be used?

Also, is there a good way to refasten the number plate or is it best to just tape it up?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I like powder coat for the frame and swingarm. But paint for the cradle - I use VHT Rollbar and Chassis paint in Gloss (not real glossy).

The Certification Label gets put on with Brass hammer-drive screws. #3 here: https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-drawing/69/frame-swinging-arm-suspension-units. If you would like a new Certification Label, it's #2 on the same page and if you ask, AN will stamp it to match your current one for free. I put new on every bike I build but keep the old one to prove that you didn't make it up.

If you want to powder coat your frame, first shop around. Then tell them 80-85% gloss (assuming you want to stay black, and tell them NO clear coat!

If you want to paint it, the paint I mentioned is very good and needs no primer - either get the frame blasted or sand it smooth first. That paint is close enough that you can spot paint. I repainted all bad spots on my rider by sanding a d feathering and the painting with masking and/or a piece of cardboard behind the area - it looks very good. Not as good as a professional bare frame paint job but almost. I did that because it has never been apart in its life.

It's fairly straightforward to remove the VIN plate without damage by using a junior hacksaw to cut a slot in the rivets and then unscrew them.
New rivets are cheap - see Greg's link above. Certification labels varied depending on year and market.
Pros and cons to powdercoat vs. paint. Quite a few parts from Andover Norton are now powder coated, and because the coating builds up more it means some things don't fit like they should - bolt holes get undersized, and pushing the bolt through can flake off the coating.
Painted frames are much easier to touch up, whereas once powder coat had chipped it's more difficult to manage.
Personally I prefer paint, and I also prefer a high gloss, as that's how they left the factory. I've no interest in fake patina - just IMHO.

RussellTx said:

One question about Frame coatings:

The frame has a fair bit of rust and corrosion areas so I will probably want to consider a new coating.

My question is about what is the preferred method? Powder Coating or Painted?
Is there a color code that should be used?

Also, is there a good way to refasten the number plate or is it best to just tape it up?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Paint for me.

For paint:
Postives: It looks correct. It doesn’t alter any dimensions. It’s easy to strip in future.
Negatives: Not as chip resistant as powder.

For powder:
Positives: Very chip resistant. Usually cheaper than paint.
Negatives: Often way too thick, affecting parts fit and / or needed lots of masking on mating surfaces. Thickness also makes it look ‘wrong’. Incredibly difficult to remove when required due to weak modern paint strippers.

So the only real positive to powder is the chip resistance. Are you going motocrossing or desert racing on it? If so, perhaps choose powder.

I swore off of powder years ago. Then when I rebuilt my Commando I allowed a specialist to convince me that all of those issues no longer applied with modern materials and processes. So I had everything powder coated. It looks lovely and is unbelievably tough, but components like the battery tray and rear light brackets were destroyed by distortion due to heat. And my crank cases cracked due to the cradle fasteners losing their torque when the coating crushed (I subsequently learned that the best practice is to mask off all mounting faces) and all of this was done by a motorcycle specialist NOT some rough-arsed industrial coater.

Talking of which, it’s worth noting that powder coat was invented as a cheap industrial alternative to paint that can be applied with low skilled labour.

All that said, powder CAN be done well, just look at pics on cNw web site, Matt has frames, oil tanks, etc powder coated and they look stunning. But he has obviously found an outstanding coater, and I imagine he has worked with them to establish his requirements. Unless you know the coater, and their work, you won’t find out if they’re this good until it’s too late. And the vast majority of coaters out there are not that good!

If you choose powder, I’d suggest getting some test pieces done first to evaluate their work, and ensure they know your exacting standards and your zero tolerance attitude to not meeting them.

RussellTx said:

Yep, I do...
I also understand that it's best to double check before increasing pressure to find the 'sufficient force" required to break things loose.
Apparently it was not trivial...

I stripped everything else off the frame and was able to invert the frame and hammer down on the fork to get it to release.

I now have everything stripped down and I'm starting to get everything organized into chunks so I can plan the work.

Also, one of my trips was down to my parents house where I was able to visit with my great uncle (owner of the bike) while I was there. He assured me that the bike was 100% functional and looked as goods the 'before' picture above. All of the corrosion and seizing up occurred while sitting in the garage. Father Time has no mercy...

Frame.jpeg

• RussellTx
• Aug 18, 2024

Click to expand...

Have you asked Uncle why it was parked up in the first place? You said it was parked up in the eighties with engine trouble. Would be good to know what that trouble was.

Fast Eddie said:

Have you asked Uncle why it was parked up in the first place? You said it was parked up in the eighties with engine trouble. Would be good to know what that trouble was.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I am correcting here.
It was parked for personal reasons, not mechanical.
Bike worked fine when it was parked. He would stop by kick it over every now and then until one time (the last time) it would not turn over.

Good info!
I'll probably power coat it...

I found this link that will be very helpful in the process:

I do have a guy that I use a lot and I'm sure he can get it right. I may just have him do the swing arm and the frame though.

I should be able to fit all of the smaller stuff in my little oven. I picked this up on Craigslist for $35 a few years ago and it has done dozens of little parts with my Eastwood kit. It was a HotPoint Oven out of a 'nice when new' 50's home that the guy was remodeling.

Dished washer and shouldered spacer…
Shoot me now!

Is the dummy axle supposed to be VERY sloppy or is that a sign of a bad bearing?

Contemplating Greg’s welder and slide hammer trick but I’ll try again tomorrow before I go there.

RussellTx said:

Dished washer and shouldered spacer…
Shoot me now!

Is the dummy axle supposed to be VERY sloppy or is that a sign of a bad bearing?

Contemplating Greg’s welder and slide hammer trick but I’ll try again tomorrow before I go there.

Click to expand...

Sloppy is the new normal, yes. The job it does when captive and assembled does not require all the surfaces to be "mating" much at all. If they did, you'd need lube in there.

Update:

I had to resort to the slide hammer for the 'shouldered spacer' (BEARING SPACER - (06.2070))
After that, I was able to complete all of the disassembly for the powder coated parts.

I picked up hardware at tractor supply per the Old Britts Powder coating guidance link I posted earlier and went to visit the Powder Coater.
We went through the document and he was comfortable that his guys could handle it as they do a lot of motorcycles and it was pretty normal for them.
I have used them before and I trust them but I'm still a little nervous... We will see in a week or two.

Now I'm continuing to clean up parts and work on a master list of parts I need to buy. I'm trying to be more organized than I usually am. Not sure how long that will last.

Thoughts:

I am going to stick with the plan to keep the bike as original as I can. Too much of the bike is in great shape and it is just a great example of an original.
That said, just as the frame was too far gone not to address the paint/powder coat while everything is apart, I want to address the wiring fully to make sure there are no issues.

Question:

Wiring Harness. Johnm had some ideas and also led me to the https://granttiller.com/norton-commando-wiring-diagram. I will be doing the electronic ignition upgrade because we are too old to kick it any more than necessary!

I am interested in thoughts around potential options or forum threads to figure out if I want to 1.) clean and repair the original harness, 2.) Buy a new Harness or 3.) Build my own harness from Andover-Norton materials. Or maybe a combination?

General Priorities are:
-Safety and Reliability
-Durability and Longevity
-Originality

Thanks again for all the help!

I always go with a new harness. If you put the original back on and have problems once the bike is back together it will be a pia to change it out at that point. I would also recommend the Trispark ignition and their rectifier replacement. If on a budget the Pazon surefire and a podtronics. You might also want to go to a 3 phase alternator upgrade.

htown16 said:

I always go with a new harness. If you put the original back on and have problems once the bike is back together it will be a pia to change it out at that point. I would also recommend the Trispark ignition and their rectifier replacement. If on a budget the Pazon surefire and a podtronics. You might also want to go to a 3 phase alternator upgrade.

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Thanks! Exactly the input I'm seeking.

Is there a recommended harness or are they all about the same?

Another option - AO Services sell wiring kits (www.aoservices.co.uk/products/wiring-kit.html) in correct colours etc, that you can build up yourself and avoid any spare wires or cater for any tweaks that you might include.

Grer Marsh has good pricing on Tri Spark, he has wiring harness info on his website.
He may build a harness for you also.

New harness every time for me.
Standard post-'72 should fit - there's a main harness and headlamp harness. The originals have a whole bunch of unused wires which were for police equipment.
Where possible, I bin off the original bullet connectors and black sleeves in favour of Japanese bullets.
They're easy to fit, more water resistant and don't require yanking on the wires to disconnect.
They're also less bulky - the mess of wiring under the tank needs all the help it can get...