Renold Chain back in business ?

gortnipper said:

We need a spintron test from our resident Jedi Master...

Click to expand...

We don't need to, enough on here use the IWIS to proof it's better - test done.

Frankie17 said:

Kommando

the Merc timing chain is manufactured to a high standard i would anticipate a 100K service life span be specified by Mercedes as OEM cam chain fitment
the retailer knowingly selling this chain for a different purpose is the risk taker , if wrongly fitted by the owner miss aligned / loose and it caused the trans to lock up resulting in an accident
he is very exposed to litigation any product liability he thinks he has will be void as this chain is not designed for application

think about Simplex Drive chains you can remove a chain from a piece of junk agricultural machinery made in china and fit it on your 150HP motorcycle
Motorcycle specific simplex drive chains are made from alloys designed to be fit for the purpose , you will find for Motorcycle specific chains ISO 10190 suppliers will provide a fitment guide
think about a 530 standard chain designed to be used on a 50HP twin fitted to a 150HP superbike sprockets are the same pitch but the superbike chain should be a sealed chain with much higher
tensile strength as per the chain manufacturers fitment guide ( correct chain for application is the key ) to the ISO standards

these standards are to protect Motorcyclists from rouge traders lets face it any shady trader can import a crap industrial chain from China tomorrow put it in a pretty box
and pass it off as motorcycle chain

Click to expand...

What tosh, I don't walk in a Suzuki dealer and ask if their chain fits a yamaha and expect them to get a fitment guide out.
I don't retail to a generic market so don't need a fitment guide.
Fitment guides are just that - guides, produced by the likes of Regina, DID etc, the correct chain for your bike is not the one in fitment guide, but the one the manufacturer specifies.

EstuaryBoy said:

So much negativity!!
Let's hope they look at how high a regard the Lucas 'brand' is now held and learn something. Nothing wrong with healthy competition...
Everyone has the power to surprise, look at TVS (961 owners notwithstanding!)

Click to expand...

Missed the boat, Lucas has now been sold and is back to the Indian Red boxes. Shame, as they were going in the right direction in Wassels hands.

Madnorton said:

This is not about the ISO 10190 chain not being suitable, but the IWIS being superior - why reintroduce something that requires more adjusting and wears out quicker - read previous posts from others using it.
Proof of the pudding is those using it, I don't see a rush back to Renold ISO 10190 spec chain.
Currently in the EU and UK there are companies trying to jump on a bandwagon if some proposed legislation comes in, however it has now been clarified in both that classics will not be affected.
In the US the IWIS chain will not be supplied by IWIS for motorcycle use, the rest of the world it does, as many motorcycle manufacturers no longer specify a ISO 10190 chain.
Having used both, I doubted the findings of others on here about IWIS, I use the Elite and even that is far superior to blue box chain.
Be aware many of the common motorcycle chain manufacturers claim their chain is 10190, having measured some of their offerings and challenged them to supply the correct chain they couldn't and admitted their chain exceeds 10190. It measures the same as DIN spec. If you think this is make believe, then why would a fanfare be sounded in the OP about 10190 chain now being reintroduced.

Click to expand...

I do not think it is make believe.

Madnorton said:

This is not about the ISO 10190 chain not being suitable, but the IWIS being superior - why reintroduce something that requires more adjusting and wears out quicker - read previous posts from others using it.
Proof of the pudding is those using it, I don't see a rush back to Renold ISO 10190 spec chain.
Currently in the EU and UK there are companies trying to jump on a bandwagon if some proposed legislation comes in, however it has now been clarified in both that classics will not be affected.
In the US the IWIS chain will not be supplied by IWIS for motorcycle use, the rest of the world it does, as many motorcycle manufacturers no longer specify a ISO 10190 chain.
Having used both, I doubted the findings of others on here about IWIS, I use the Elite and even that is far superior to blue box chain.
Be aware many of the common motorcycle chain manufacturers claim their chain is 10190, having measured some of their offerings and challenged them to supply the correct chain they couldn't and admitted their chain exceeds 10190. It measures the same as DIN spec. If you think this is make believe, then why would a fanfare be sounded in the OP about 10190 chain now being reintroduced.

Click to expand...

Madnorton,

This is not about what you've said - you certainly know more than me - I'm only quoting to I have my thoughts in order...

I have some problems with this discussion.
1) Our bikes were not made for 530 chains and I've had problems finding standard 530 chains (especially the master link) that didn't interfere and I've never found a heavy duty, o-ring, or x-ring 530 chain that didn't interfere.
2) The Elite brand chains that Wassell sells (AFAIK, made by IWIS) absolutely interfere. Those are the only Elite-branded chains I know of. Wassell stated that they are made exclusively for Wassell. What is the overall width of the ELITE chain master links AN sells? If they are the same or less than the 10B-1 chain I've been using, I will switch to them for some builds. Most builds will continue to be RGM 520 rear hubs/AN 520 front sprockets/DID 520 X-Ring chains (I use 520VX3).
3) In the US, to buy 10B-1 chain, you have to buy it for industrial purposes - no one I've found will sell it to you if you mention motorcycle.
4) Any chain good enough for a modern near 200mph bike is plenty good for my Nortons and Triumphs and some of them use 525 chains - 3 or 4x HP and a smaller chain.
5) It is my understanding (could be wrong) that Renold is going to re-introduce 10B-1 chain specified for motorcycles.

I am not a chain expert, I'm not willing to buy the specs, and I doubt that they mean a lot when you consider the people who do nothing to their chains. I have a customer with a standard 530 chain who never oils, wipes, or cleans his chain in any way. When he starts hearing it, he brings it to be replaced. If he had a Norton I would give him no option and install a 520 X-Ring chain.

Here's what little I know about chain and this is only published to attempt to help others. If you find something wrong and can back it up, I'm more than happy to fix it:

https://www.gregmarsh.com/MC/Chains.aspx

marshg246 said:

What is the overall width of the ELITE chain master links AN sells?

Click to expand...

A newly purchased 06.5441/LINK measures up at 0.835"

The chain I use does not interfere on the MK3.
There is a sealed narrow width 530 that fits MK3 with no issues, I tested it but it was more expensive and 25% heavier so decided not to retail it. Didn't even bother checking it on pre-MK3.
I know what is out there, the market on chain is competitive and they sometimes contact us, as well as me contacting them, you know full well if I didn't somone would be on my case.
Unless this Renold chain is equal too in strength and cheaper than IWIS chains, it won't find much time propelling Nortons.

Peavey Jeltz said:

A newly purchased 06.5441/LINK measures up at 0.835"

Click to expand...

Then I assume you are installing the master link outside in and not worrying if it's hitting the gearbox. The Elite-branded chain Wassell sells is 0.0820" for the chain and 0.0870" for the master link and the master link will absolutely hit the inner primary on a correctly assembled 750 and even on an 850 with two gaskets up front. The 10B-1 chain master link I have been using is 0.0824" and does not hit no matter how installed.

marshg246 said:

Then I assume you are installing the master link outside in and not worrying if it's hitting the gearbox. The Elite-branded chain Wassell sells is 0.0820" for the chain and 0.0870" for the master link and the master link will absolutely hit the inner primary on a correctly assembled 750 and even on an 850 with two gaskets up front. The 10B-1 chain master link I have been using is 0.0824" and does not hit no matter how installed.

Click to expand...

Clip facing out, but can't comment regards clearance. There's a 24T sprocket sized hole in the backside of the primary.

Don't need no stinking master link !

Madnorton click on the IWIS web page no mention of Motorcycle chain ??? is the chain you are supplied cut to length and boxed as Motorcycle or supplied bulk ??

"Manufactured to the Worldwide Motorcycle Chain Standard ISO 10190 and therefore warranted by the manufacturer for motorcycle use."

Yes Exactly Elite By IWIS boxed as motorcycle chain and warranted by the manufacturer None of this is sold by The chain man or AN as motorcycle chain

In

Frankie17 said:

Madnorton click on the IWIS web page no mention of Motorcycle chain ??? is the chain you are supplied cut to length and boxed as Motorcycle or supplied bulk ??

Click to expand...

It is what I order cut to length and then collect from their facility in Tipton.

Frankie17 said:

Yes Exactly Elite By IWIS boxed as motorcycle chain and warranted by the manufacturer None of this is sold by The chain man or AN as motorcycle chain

Click to expand...

Do you honestly believe the IWIS facility in Tipton would be selling us non spec chain with the very good relationship we have with them, they would have suggested that chain also if it was 10190 spec.
If they have had made Elite chain in 530 size and 10190 spec for someone else then simple, don't use it on a Commando, it will stretch like mad just like any other 10190 chain. So a false economy.

Frankie17 said:

No Iwis will sell you a DIN specification chain to the exact same spec as the ISO WHERE in the ISO spec does it say tensile strenght / dimensions are altered in any way from from DIN
your argument for not using a ISO chain is based on the fact you do not have access to purchase ISO accredited chain so it is not in your interest to endorse sellers who have gone the extra mile
to be in line with international standards

is the IWIS you purchase sold as motorcycle chain? if so is it boxed as motorcycle chain ?? two very simple questions to answer yes /no

Iwis do produce the ELITE motorcycle range boxed and accredited to current standards you have not been informed and have no access
this will be a commercial decision by IWIS to appoint one distributor with exclusive territory

Click to expand...

The last time I looked the ISO 10190 spec has no exact equivalent DIN spec, so you can't get a DIN spec chain the same as the ISO 10190 spec, if you can let us know the DIN number.
As for exclusivity, where is the ISO 10190 IWIS chain for sale in the UK, you know as well as me the Wassel boxed item above is DIN spec despite what is printed on the box. You well know this as the new Renold ISO 10190 chain was announced as chain to fill a gap in the market, strange then as you then seem to highlight the wassel product as ISO 10190 spec, so why the rush to introduce a ISO 10190 from Reynolds, looks like Renold will try and take the business from IWIS, if not it looks like wassel beat Renold to it.
If anything it is you who are trying to discredit AN and the Chainman, I'm not discrediting anyone, just highlighting why anyone these days would produce a chain to ISO 10190 spec.
The Norton MK3 manual does not even stipulate or specify using motorcycle chain. So, what fits and is known to work is satisfactory, the legality of 10190 is not a concern it seems.

Madnorton


I am not trying to discredit you or the chain man both companies have good reputations

I am just highlighting the fact industry standards are somewhat open for manipulation
By actively selling IWIS motorcycle chain without the manufacturers official packaging The end user does not know the technical specification of the chain supplied

We are totally reliant on you supplying the correct chain and you are reliant on Iwis supplying you the correct chain spec if chain is packaged / endorsed by the manufacturer the warranty recourse is traceable I guess it is just a case of Caveat emptor buying a un packaged chain

As you suggest the legality of ISO10190 may not be a concern to you but it seems the main stream chain manufacturers have chosen to endorse and supply Motorcycle specific chain to ISO standards even Renold have awoken

The Norton MK3 manual was printed in the 1970`s so has little relevance in 2021 I can purchase online your 530 chain and fit to my Norton which will not be an issue
Or I could foolishly choose to fit it to my Fire blade as the chain is supplied with no manufacturers packaging and fitment data to confirm application

You guys realise that no one else is remotely interested in your tête-à-tête right ?

If Renolds come out with a chain that performs better than IWIS we’ll soon know, from users.

If they don’t, we’ll soon know, from users.

Simple as really.

Fast Eddie said:

You guys realise that no one else is remotely interested in your tête-à-tête right ?

If Renolds come out with a chain that performs better than IWIS we’ll soon know, from users.

If they don’t, we’ll soon know, from users.

Simple as really.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking of converting my commando to shaft drive
Or slitting my wrists
Or both just to be safe