Mart UK
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More of a chicken in a basket man myself.You'll be wanting Col. Saunder's 'secret recipe' next
'No relying on the past name'.... I wonder why we didn't get a: 'TVS V4SV?'
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Renold Chain back in business ?
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Fast Eddie
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I just want a good chain mate!You'll be wanting Col. Saunder's 'secret recipe' next
'No relying on the past name'.... I wonder why we didn't get a: 'TVS V4SV?'
'
But I already have one.
So I’d need a damned good reason to change.
Thats all.
concours
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I've been running these on my vintage bikes, and at the $30 price point, toss it over my shoulder at the end of each riding season. I give it the moly fortified chain-lube, and the sprockets are lasting brilliantly. Give me a reason to change...
The reason this new Renold chain came about has to be cost, the iwis chains fit and last well, so it seems a real strange move to make an ISO10190 chain, which no matter which way you look at it, is chain for a purpose and made solely for that purpose. The only reason I can see is cost related, as it is different to the DIN spec the IWIS chains are supplied to, differencing in strength and slightly in dimension, so unless you are absolutely in need of the ISO10190 chain size there is no point in manufacturing it.
Don't you think I have asked IWIS manufacturing an ISO10190 chain, if I hadn't I would not be doing my job.
Don't you think I have asked IWIS manufacturing an ISO10190 chain, if I hadn't I would not be doing my job.
What one? Look at the ISO 10190 spec then look at what they retail. Many manufacturers use 'exceeds' or 'stronger' than, one term is factual the other descriptive, both allowed in law. Last time I looked across the UK suppliers of chains for motorcycles in the UK and EU none actually made a chain to the spec.
Mart UK
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Only allowed in law if they're true though. Trade descriptions Act makes it a criminal offence and it would be an actionable misrepresentation in contract law. Ultimately, Trading Standards would shut that down.
Yes, but the chains being sold by numerous suppliers exceeds the dimensions of and is stronger than chain made to ISO 10190, so not false.
If anything I suspect a scam by Renold, with potential anti tampering laws and through life responsibility of vehicles legislation I suspect that they will insist telling classic owners that chain must be as specified to be sold as motorcycle chain. Thing is this legislation would not apply to classics.
I really don't see a market for ISO 10190 spec chain in the size we use. It does not make commercial or economic sense.
If renold make a stronger chain, at the correct dimensions for ISO 10190 at half the price they could be onto something, I would be mightily impressed if they can. In the meantime IWIS DIN spec chain will prevail, simple as.
I really don't see a market for ISO 10190 spec chain in the size we use. It does not make commercial or economic sense.
If renold make a stronger chain, at the correct dimensions for ISO 10190 at half the price they could be onto something, I would be mightily impressed if they can. In the meantime IWIS DIN spec chain will prevail, simple as.
Both Iwis and Regina produce ISO 10190 specification Motorcycle chain Wassell have been using this spec chain since 2014 take a look at the new products section of the website
going back to 2014 they were promoting the use of ISO motorcycle chains
in the event of an accident due to a chain failure public liability insurance would require proof any chain supplied for motorcycle use conforms to to ISO 10190
i do not think supplying DIN standards would stand up in a court hearing if serious injury or death was the result of a chain break
this is why international standards are introduced to protect Motorcyclists from rouge traders passing off industrial chain as fit for purpose
All the recognised manufacturers DID / EK / RK / Regina / IWIS Elite / Tsubaki / etc producing motorcycle chain have a range of ISO10190 specification chains in place
path to market is normally through the appointed motorcycle parts wholesaler / distributors for specific territory
going back to 2014 they were promoting the use of ISO motorcycle chains
in the event of an accident due to a chain failure public liability insurance would require proof any chain supplied for motorcycle use conforms to to ISO 10190
i do not think supplying DIN standards would stand up in a court hearing if serious injury or death was the result of a chain break
this is why international standards are introduced to protect Motorcyclists from rouge traders passing off industrial chain as fit for purpose
All the recognised manufacturers DID / EK / RK / Regina / IWIS Elite / Tsubaki / etc producing motorcycle chain have a range of ISO10190 specification chains in place
path to market is normally through the appointed motorcycle parts wholesaler / distributors for specific territory
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The ISO standards are base standards, if you bought main roller bearings that just made ISO standard they would not last long. The bearing ISO standard completely omits the requirements on the steel specs set by the likes of SKF that gives the long bearing life they are looking for and achieve.
Iwis Mercedes timing chain is made to be used in a specific application that requires a long life inside an engine, a chain made to meet that will also perform well as a primary chain. It will vastly exceed a basic ISO chain spec and the ISO spec it exceeds will be meaningless in context.
Iwis Mercedes timing chain is made to be used in a specific application that requires a long life inside an engine, a chain made to meet that will also perform well as a primary chain. It will vastly exceed a basic ISO chain spec and the ISO spec it exceeds will be meaningless in context.
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Ironically, if Renolds’ new improved chain really is better than IWIS, I’m never likely to find that out.
I’m hardly going to take sales talk seriously.
A Loonycycle Monthly “ultimate chain shootout” is likely to recommend the worst of everything.
Someone might buy it and praise it up on this or some other forum, but they may be the sort of person who can’t admit they bought a load of crap. They might even be a liar!
I’m hardly going to take sales talk seriously.
A Loonycycle Monthly “ultimate chain shootout” is likely to recommend the worst of everything.
Someone might buy it and praise it up on this or some other forum, but they may be the sort of person who can’t admit they bought a load of crap. They might even be a liar!
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We need a spintron test from our resident Jedi Master...
Kommando
the Merc timing chain is manufactured to a high standard i would anticipate a 100K service life span be specified by Mercedes as OEM cam chain fitment
the retailer knowingly selling this chain for a different purpose is the risk taker , if wrongly fitted by the owner miss aligned / loose and it caused the trans to lock up resulting in an accident
he is very exposed to litigation any product liability he thinks he has will be void as this chain is not designed for application
think about Simplex Drive chains you can remove a chain from a piece of junk agricultural machinery made in china and fit it on your 150HP motorcycle
Motorcycle specific simplex drive chains are made from alloys designed to be fit for the purpose , you will find for Motorcycle specific chains ISO 10190 suppliers will provide a fitment guide
think about a 530 standard chain designed to be used on a 50HP twin fitted to a 150HP superbike sprockets are the same pitch but the superbike chain should be a sealed chain with much higher
tensile strength as per the chain manufacturers fitment guide ( correct chain for application is the key ) to the ISO standards
these standards are to protect Motorcyclists from rouge traders lets face it any shady trader can import a crap industrial chain from China tomorrow put it in a pretty box
and pass it off as motorcycle chain
the Merc timing chain is manufactured to a high standard i would anticipate a 100K service life span be specified by Mercedes as OEM cam chain fitment
the retailer knowingly selling this chain for a different purpose is the risk taker , if wrongly fitted by the owner miss aligned / loose and it caused the trans to lock up resulting in an accident
he is very exposed to litigation any product liability he thinks he has will be void as this chain is not designed for application
think about Simplex Drive chains you can remove a chain from a piece of junk agricultural machinery made in china and fit it on your 150HP motorcycle
Motorcycle specific simplex drive chains are made from alloys designed to be fit for the purpose , you will find for Motorcycle specific chains ISO 10190 suppliers will provide a fitment guide
think about a 530 standard chain designed to be used on a 50HP twin fitted to a 150HP superbike sprockets are the same pitch but the superbike chain should be a sealed chain with much higher
tensile strength as per the chain manufacturers fitment guide ( correct chain for application is the key ) to the ISO standards
these standards are to protect Motorcyclists from rouge traders lets face it any shady trader can import a crap industrial chain from China tomorrow put it in a pretty box
and pass it off as motorcycle chain
Truly astounding, don't you think I have I have asked the suppliers you mention about ISO 10190 chain - it is my job and we have the purchasing capability to have ISO 10190 chain made if we wanted it, and yes we supply IWIS and Renold motorcycle chain. Using a DIN spec chain would easily stand up court, it can easily be demonstrated that it far exceeds ISO 10190 spec for the envelope it fits. Only the USA it seems would stand against using a better standard.
As far as I'm aware there is a supply of ISO 10190 chain in the USA, one retailer on here buys it. In the size and type of chain we use no other manufacturer makes it. They claim it ISO 10190 spec, but when challenged on the size of the component parts it is made from, they admit it is DIN spec, yes I have done it and asked them. The only two reputable companies to date who rightly don't claim the spec is Renold and IWIS, which says a lot about DID, Regina etc.
Due to the difference in manufacturing specs, you can clearly see why a ISO 10190 could not be confused with a DIN spec chain that we currently used.
As far as I'm aware there is a supply of ISO 10190 chain in the USA, one retailer on here buys it. In the size and type of chain we use no other manufacturer makes it. They claim it ISO 10190 spec, but when challenged on the size of the component parts it is made from, they admit it is DIN spec, yes I have done it and asked them. The only two reputable companies to date who rightly don't claim the spec is Renold and IWIS, which says a lot about DID, Regina etc.
Due to the difference in manufacturing specs, you can clearly see why a ISO 10190 could not be confused with a DIN spec chain that we currently used.
concours
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Easily, this beats an "oil thread" HANDS DOWN.
I had no idea the peril I was in, using a motorcycle chain, sold by a well known company that's sold motorcycle chain for decades.
Seriously, I battle cheaply made machinery parts DAILY. I despise cheap junk that doesn't work.
What can I expect to pay for an Iwis chain, or a new Renold suitable for final drive on my commando?
I had no idea the peril I was in, using a motorcycle chain, sold by a well known company that's sold motorcycle chain for decades.
Seriously, I battle cheaply made machinery parts DAILY. I despise cheap junk that doesn't work.
What can I expect to pay for an Iwis chain, or a new Renold suitable for final drive on my commando?
if you are confident the DIN spec chain you supply is bullet proof
lets put it this way do you supply a fitment guide ? if i were to purchase a standard chain off you tomorrow fit it to my Japanese 200HP 2021superbike
ring its neck snap the chain wrap it around the rear wheel and hit the tarmac you will stand by the product when my lawyers call ( you sold it to me as motorcycle chain )
you as a retailer have to make provision for muppets fitting the wrong chains that`s why motorcycle standards have been put in place
Up Until its re introduction in 2021 Renold have not officially endorsed Motorcycle chain for many years , if you speak with their reps they would supply Renold blue box DIN spec
lets put it this way do you supply a fitment guide ? if i were to purchase a standard chain off you tomorrow fit it to my Japanese 200HP 2021superbike
ring its neck snap the chain wrap it around the rear wheel and hit the tarmac you will stand by the product when my lawyers call ( you sold it to me as motorcycle chain )
you as a retailer have to make provision for muppets fitting the wrong chains that`s why motorcycle standards have been put in place
Up Until its re introduction in 2021 Renold have not officially endorsed Motorcycle chain for many years , if you speak with their reps they would supply Renold blue box DIN spec
Blimey, the chainman and many others have had it wrong all these years.
I don't need a fitment guide as I retail for certain models only.
I know exactly what the blue chain is and was, and yes I have spoken to Renold reps who at the time were not that interested in producing motorcycle spec chain, so why now - has somone stupidly crossed their palms with silver.
If the blue box chain was DIN spec, then why like myself and others on this forum prefer to use the IWIS DIN spec chain. The blue box was second rate.
The blue box chain on a Commando is practically obsolete, yes, it works, but needs regular adjusting and wears out rapidly compared to IWIS.
Unless it is going to be very cheap, or superior to IWIS that many on here now use, it will be a none seller.
And yes, I would stand by IWIS in court over an original ISO 10190 when used on a Commando and I'm qualified to do so.
I can see where this leading, Renold will now cry fowl about others supplying IWIS chain, and try and gain market share through scaremongering tactics, though I doubt it will make a difference to those members here using IWIS, the quality and strength in the Renold chain cannot be anything like what others supply - that is guaranteed by the fact the ISO 10190 spec limits the dimensions of component parts.
If they have introduced it due to pending legislation in the EU which is on hold, and which the UK has said it will adopt, and the associated anti tampering legislation that will be introduced it seems, then again this chain will be only for new manufacture bikes as both bits of legislation will not affect classics thankfully.
I don't need a fitment guide as I retail for certain models only.
I know exactly what the blue chain is and was, and yes I have spoken to Renold reps who at the time were not that interested in producing motorcycle spec chain, so why now - has somone stupidly crossed their palms with silver.
If the blue box chain was DIN spec, then why like myself and others on this forum prefer to use the IWIS DIN spec chain. The blue box was second rate.
The blue box chain on a Commando is practically obsolete, yes, it works, but needs regular adjusting and wears out rapidly compared to IWIS.
Unless it is going to be very cheap, or superior to IWIS that many on here now use, it will be a none seller.
And yes, I would stand by IWIS in court over an original ISO 10190 when used on a Commando and I'm qualified to do so.
I can see where this leading, Renold will now cry fowl about others supplying IWIS chain, and try and gain market share through scaremongering tactics, though I doubt it will make a difference to those members here using IWIS, the quality and strength in the Renold chain cannot be anything like what others supply - that is guaranteed by the fact the ISO 10190 spec limits the dimensions of component parts.
If they have introduced it due to pending legislation in the EU which is on hold, and which the UK has said it will adopt, and the associated anti tampering legislation that will be introduced it seems, then again this chain will be only for new manufacture bikes as both bits of legislation will not affect classics thankfully.
This is not about the ISO 10190 chain not being suitable, but the IWIS being superior - why reintroduce something that requires more adjusting and wears out quicker - read previous posts from others using it.
Proof of the pudding is those using it, I don't see a rush back to Renold ISO 10190 spec chain.
Currently in the EU and UK there are companies trying to jump on a bandwagon if some proposed legislation comes in, however it has now been clarified in both that classics will not be affected.
In the US the IWIS chain will not be supplied by IWIS for motorcycle use, the rest of the world it does, as many motorcycle manufacturers no longer specify a ISO 10190 chain.
Having used both, I doubted the findings of others on here about IWIS, I use the Elite and even that is far superior to blue box chain.
Be aware many of the common motorcycle chain manufacturers claim their chain is 10190, having measured some of their offerings and challenged them to supply the correct chain they couldn't and admitted their chain exceeds 10190. It measures the same as DIN spec. If you think this is make believe, then why would a fanfare be sounded in the OP about 10190 chain now being reintroduced.
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