Paint Scheme

marshg246 said:

As I understand t the round badge was original in 67

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Commando production didn't begin until around early 1968. The '67 show model(s) had the green blob and although the badge recess had gone by '1969' according to the parts list, below...



... the Red/Silver scheme seems to have been introduced before then as some have the badge recess.

Edit: The badge removed from the tail section at this time.

marshg246 said:

OK, I'm completely lost. As I understand t the round badge was original in 67 - when did it end? When was the two-tone paint available and in what colors? If all tanks in 67-68 were fiberglass, how did they pull off two-tone - did they paint the gelcoat? Most importantly, how do I correct the first two rows here: https://www.gregmarsh.com/MC/Norton/CommandoColors.aspx and please provide something authoritative. I'm OK with "I bought one from xyz dealer" as authoritative as long as you don't mind saying it publicly.

I'm not interested in dealer changes or special deals - just what Norton offered. For instance, when I lived in Germany, I bought a BMW from the factory. I wanted the silver interior which wasn't offered with the exterior color, and I wanted the 325 wheels, but I was buying a 328. A 500 mark "computer override" and, I had what I wanted. So, yes it came that way from factory, but I probably had the only one in the world.

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I'd refer the Honourable Gentleman to my previous statement
The 2-tone finish seemed to disappear for the 20M3S, but I can't substantiate this.
The recessed tank (including the 2-tone) was still being shipped in September '68. Unfortunately the Factory Records don't list colours for the early bikes, which doesn't help matters at all!
A few sources have mentioned the model years changing around October, but I don't have any substantive information myself.

B+Bogus said:

A few sources have mentioned the model years changing around October, but I don't have any substantive information myself.

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But then there were no "model years" for the Commando.

The only point of reference in the "1968-'70" parts book is serial number 131257 which doesn't seem to apply to Fastback changes (or all 'R' type parts even though marked "applicable after 131257") and would be early '69 production (first 'S' type).

L.A.B. said:

Commando production didn't begin until around early 1968. The '67 show model(s) had the green blob and although the badge recess had gone by '1969' according to the parts list, below...

... the Red/Silver scheme seems to have been introduced before then as some have the badge recess.

Edit: The badge removed from the tail section at this time.

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I saw that before and should have asked. Is the Red/Silver the two-tone paint job? What about the Blue/Silver in post #79?

Does "Self Finish" mean gelcoat (not paint)?

marshg246 said:

Is the Red/Silver the two-tone paint job?

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I can't think of any other Red/Silver paint job it might be.

marshg246 said:

Does "Self Finish" mean gelcoat (not paint)?

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I don't know but as the colours are listed it seems replacement red/silver (and blue/silver were there also some green/silver?) tanks in previous posts were supplied already painted.

"self-finished (factory finished)

Material or component that has a surface prepared for final application needing no further treatment. The component needs to be handled with care during transportation and fitting so as not to scratch or damage the surface.... ..."

marshg246 said:

I saw that before and should have asked. Is the Red/Silver the two-tone paint job? What about the Blue/Silver in post #79?

Does "Self Finish" mean gelcoat (not paint)?

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The Blue/Silver is rare. I had a discussion with Dean, the owner, and he was of the opinion that it was a factory finish (he was sceptical initially, and did a thorough inspection). The photos I've seen back this up.
I think self finish does mean gelcoat in this context. Interesting that (non-recessed) plain metalflake silver is offered, as I haven't seen one on a bike (yet...)

SteveC said:

I am currently rebuilding a Fastback. Scott, can you post details of your Fireflake blue paint match. Steve

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See response #58 above for info and link to the vendor. If you PM your email I can show you a color sample as compared to one of my original side panels.

I have done some updates and added a disclaimer for 1969. The 1969-70 supplement has a little info but it seems to conflict, in part, with this thread. Clearly, Roy Bacon's "Norton Twin Restoration" book is wrong about 1969 so I'm looking for anything authoritative. I have a lot of other books to look through but if anyone knows of something I would appreciate hearing about it.

marshg246 said:

I have done some updates and added a disclaimer for 1969. The 1969-70 supplement has a little info but it seems to conflict, in part, with this thread. Clearly, Roy Bacon's "Norton Twin Restoration" book is wrong about 1969 so I'm looking for anything authoritative. I have a lot of other books to look through but if anyone knows of something I would appreciate hearing about it.

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I don't have Roy Bacon's book for the reason you and others before you have identified...

B+Bogus said:

I don't have Roy Bacon's book for the reason you and others before you have identified...

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I've checked all my other books. Most say nothing about colors. Steve Wilson (Norton Motorcycles from 1850 to 1986) and Roy Bacon say similar things.

Steve Wilson:

68 Only Green

69 FB, Green, Burgundy Red, and Quicksilver
R, Grenadier Red
S, British Racing Green, Quicksilver Metal Flake, Grenadier Red, Burgundy Red/Silver two-tone.

70 FB & S Metal Flake Fireglo Red, Pacific Shimmer Blue, Purple, Bronze, Silver, Emerald Green

None of which matches well with the parts books.

L.A.B. said:

Commando production didn't begin until around early 1968. The '67 show model(s) had the green blob and although the badge recess had gone by '1969' according to the parts list, below...

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My February 1969 30M3 Fastback s/n 130XXX still has tank and tail badges and is grenadier? red in colour.

Greg,
After refinishing a ‘69 type S fiberglass tank it was apparent that all the metallic tanks were done with .004” silver metal flake. The final coat then could be done in any color using transparent toner. I sanded this one to the silver gel coat then shot red toner over.

With the seat removed you can see the silver base at the scratches. I touched up the tank where the seat has left marks but obviously I have not touched up where the seat tabs scratched the rear section.

possm said:

My February 1969 30M3 Fastback s/n 130XXX still has tank and tail badges and is grenadier? red in colour.

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In the Norton Survey: https://www.gregmarsh.com/MC/Norton/CommandoSurvey.aspx
I have good info on 128336 and 131183 but very little in between. Som more info in that range, especially if it included colors would help this project.

ILLF8ED said:

Greg,
After refinishing a ‘69 type S fiberglass tank it was apparent that all the metallic tanks were done with .004” silver metal flake. The final coat then could be done in any color using transparent toner. I sanded this one to the silver gel coat then shot red toner over.
View attachment 84827

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Interesting. Supposedly, according to two sources, in 69 there were two Reds: Fireflake Red and Grenadier Red and the S-Type only came in Fireflake Red and Sapphire Blue. Other sources say other things.

To me, that doesn't look like a "Fireflake" color - too small flake (but I'm no expert).

I haven't seen anything authoritative about Grenadier Red. What color do you call yours and do you know anything about its originality?

marshg246 said:

Interesting. Supposedly, according to two sources, in 69 there were two Reds: Fireflake Red and Grenadier Red and the S-Type only came in Fireflake Red and Sapphire Blue. Other sources say other things.

To me, that doesn't look like a "Fireflake" color - too small flake (but I'm no expert).

I haven't seen anything authoritative about Grenadier Red. What color do you call yours and do you know anything about its originality?

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The iPad does not due the flake finish justice. I agree the type S only had this type finish.

I believe the Grenadier Red was the plain gelcoat red, contemporary with the plain 'British Racing' Green.
David's 'S' Type looks spot on. My effort below: same process - candy red over silver flake.
While the other colours can be achieved the same way, my 'digging' has shown the other Factory colours were in the flake, not a candy top coat.

I posted in a different thread when I was painting the S. After a lot of experimenting, this VHT tail light paint matched the original red tone. Not more than two coats or it gets too dark.

ILLF8ED said:

I posted in a different thread when I was painting the S. After a lot of experimenting, this VHT tail light paint matched the original red tone. Not more than two coats or it gets too dark.

View attachment 84837

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Interesting side note. I used DupliColor paints in the 70s to paint Triumph tanks with excellent results. Today, don't waste your money on DupliColor. DupliColor owns VHT. VHT Roll Bar and Chassis paint is easy to use, requires no primer, strong, and about the right gloss for frames.

I recently repainted my rider's frame without disassembling the bike - clean with WD50, wipe down with Denatured Alcohol, sand just enough to feather the edges of any bare spots, wipe down with Denatured Alcohol, roughly mask as needed, hold cardboard behind what I'm painting and spray. The match is good so there's no need to do the whole frame.

I've also used it on disassembled bike frames. I use it for the cradle - on those, I sand blast them clean first and mask the swingarm pivot area.

Also, VHT has black Barrel Paint - I use one can per Norton. I sand blast any loose paint off. Wash very well in hot soapy water changing the water 2-3 times. blow dry quickly. I always get a little surface rust, so I spend 2-3 minutes blasting that off. Oil the bores and lifter bores. Mask, then with the barrels upside down try hard to cover everything. Turn the barrels over and finish the job. All costs must go on in one hour. The paint dries quickly but full strength seems to come once the engine runs. I keep the nearly empty can in case I chip it or find a spot I missed - if so, I spray some in the lid and use a q-tip as a brush.

I bought this cheap to modify, but it does look like original gelcoat, does it look like grenadier red ? Possibly faded?