Old Britts E-start

There's an excellent and very thorough article on Old Britts re installation of E-start on pre- MK IIIs. I wish they made a version to work with a chain primary but it requires conversion to belt as part of the deal. But it looks very well done and is certainly worth reading if you at are at all interested in E-start. I have always said I wasn't, preferring the "pureness" of the original design but...

http://www.oldbritts.com/ob_start.html

Hmmm - link doesn't go directly - just click on the thumbnail of the starter - go to the links re installation and checklist - good stuff!

Just noticed they have a short video of a Combat starting - pretty cool seeing an old Commando start by just pushing a button. What'll they think of next?

Very nifty, but spendy.

For that price, I'll keep my Mark III and spend the rest on gas!

old-britts-start-update-t5479.html?hilit=britts%20starter&start=30

Yeah, it was mentioned in the last Old Britts starter thread...

Missed that - the info that's on the OB site now is a lot more complete than the last time I had checked - sorry if it's a repeat of what has already been posted here.

MexicoMike said:

There's an excellent and very thorough article on Old Britts re installation of E-start on pre- MK IIIs. I wish they made a version to work with a chain primary

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Did you see the posting recently on the Alton chain primary E start? Includes a compact alternator so that the cases retain stock configuration. Price appears to be very reasonable, we'll see when its released.

Mick

The alton looked really neat but I don't see any current info about it anywhere, including their website. Don't know if they just gave up on it or what.

Last I hear from one of Alton, it was still a prototype not ready for production... At 1000 euros it would be a good deal... With a primary chain.
Philippe

MexicoMike said:

The alton looked really neat but I don't see any current info about it anywhere, including their website. Don't know if they just gave up on it or what.

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Give them a chance!
No news isn't necessarily bad news, and if they update their website at the same speed they respond to emails-then I wouldn't expect to see anything on their website about it for months!
They've been making electric starter kits for Velocettes for a number of years- http://www.btinternet.com/~hawkshaw.mot ... onVES.html (not exactly "new from Alton" any more) but there's no mention of them on their website!
The Commando conversion kit got a mention in the June issue of CBG magazine [Edit:-sorry, it was Real Classic magazine- not Classic Bike Guide] , so I doubt it will be long before it's released-if it isn't already?

Guess I'm too much into the internet, instant gratification world! The last thing I saw re Alton/Norton was in April when there were pics of a working Commando starter posted here. I just figured that if they had it installed/working then, they would have them for sale by now - or at least some current info posted somewhere. The total lack of any information available at all - whether from Alton or suppliers of their stuff like Hawkshaw (I checked there first) or just some internet info made me think they had decided it wasn't worth bothering with. The only post I can find anywhere re their Norton starter ends up referring back to this site or a copy of what was posted here.

In any case I HOPE they continue. As I said originally, I'd prefer a starter that works with the oem chain drive rather than switching to a belt but I would readily go with OB due to their reputation if/when I go to Estart.

At the risk of hijacking my own thread, I have been practicing kickstarting the bike without the C stand and without putting any load on the side stand. I have yet to acquire the grace/balance to start it with NO stands but I have found that if I stand on the right side of the bike, side stand down, and kick start it from that side (not straddling the bike), there is no weight applied to the side stand. In fact, the stand comes off the ground a bit. At least this way, if I loose my balance, the side stand is still there to stop the bike from falling. Yeah, it looks a bit weenie-like to start it like that...

To continue your hijack, Mike: you need to practice starting the bike straddling it, stands up. If you stall at a traffic light it's not to convenient to put the stand down, get off the bike, and give it a kick whilst standing alongside. Around here you'd get run over!

It's not that hard, just a matter of balance! :wink:

Debby

MexicoMike said:

...
At the risk of hijacking my own thread, I have been practicing kickstarting the bike without the C stand and without putting any load on the side stand. I have yet to acquire the grace/balance to start it with NO stands but I have found that if I stand on the right side of the bike, side stand down, and kick start it from that side (not straddling the bike), there is no weight applied to the side stand. In fact, the stand comes off the ground a bit. At least this way, if I loose my balance, the side stand is still there to stop the bike from falling. Yeah, it looks a bit weenie-like to start it like that...

Click to expand...

You should practice starting it straddling no stand. When you need it started in a hurry this will be the position you're in. It's not that hard, learn your bikes "handshake", and it'll become second nature. Once you've mastered it you will probably find the idea of adding the extra $, weight, and complexity distasteful. Just my two cents.

Will

Oops beaten to the punch, I should probably finish reading the thread before replying.

Thanks Deb/Will - I know it's practice and I'll keep at it!

Re the Estart - after saying I haven't been able to find anything further from Alton, Literally 5 minutes ago I received a long email from Paul (at Alton) responding to an email I had sent him yesterday eve. I thought about posting the complete response but I don't feel comfortable posting an email message that was sent to me personally even though I'm sure it would be the same to anyone.

In any case, the important part is they have been doing validation tests on the kits since 2009 and are expecting to have them available for sale in Sep/Oct of this year for an estimated 1400 Euros. The kit will not require the modification of any oem part and therefore the bike can be 100 percent restored to original condition at any time if desired. Here's a short post from Paul's email with a translated quote that was already published in Canada:

"This is what our Canadian correspondant Jean Des Rosiers wrote in Norton Commando forum.
This is the translation of what I wrote in French (I trust more his translation than my english !!

'the kit will include a new stronger pre-machined inner chaincase ready to bolt on in place of the original. A starter motor with all the gearboxes and shafts and do hickies to transfer the movement from the outside of the chaincase to the insides of the chaincase and then to a chain running to a sprag clutch sitting next to the original 3 row engine sprocket. There is a new rotor so take the Lucas rotor and see how far you can throw it, if you are smart, you will do that under a steel bridge so the feeble magnets may help it sail a few millimiters further than in a sand pit. There is a new 150 watts thinner alternator so that it fits inside the stock outer cover. All the hardware and electrical connectors are included, the battery may be offered as an option.' "

Very nice. Considering the cost of OEM stuff for replacement, that's not too bad!

Is that alternator a little wimpy at only 150 watts?

Well, it's larger than the oem 130W Lucas that came on them but smaller than the 180W 3-phase Lucas that is on my Commando. Frankly, I don't know if the 30W drop over what I have now is meaningful or not. I do like the fact that the 3phase will charge the battery at idle if the headlight is off. With the light turned on with low beam at takes around 1800 RPM to hit 13v and with the high beam activated, it takes 3k RPM to get 13V. But I don't know if charging at idle is a result of having 180W alternator or being 3 phase.

The Sparx 3 phase alternator on my 850 cannot keep the battery charged when riding around town. I have an LED bargraph voltage monitor and at every stop it goes lower and lower. The battery drains faster with the lights on. I have a halogen headlight (55 watts) and Pazon ignition on the bike.

On my 750, I have all the stock Lucas gear - 120 watt alternator, zener, 2MC capacitor, points. I think the headlight is 35 watts but I usually have it turned off. No problems with battery charging. (No voltage monitor either!)

??? - maybe the Sparx kit is defective? Seems to me it should do better than that.

Debby

Size and age of battery?

14 ah, brand new NAPA wet battery. I don't remember the p/n right now, but it's the same as my Suz GS1000 used and it powered the e-start on that bike just fine. I think it's a 14LA2. I was running an older battery (same p/n) and it wouldn't stay charged either. So I ruled out the battery being the cause by fitting the new one. Throw money at the problem until you stumble into the solution or run out of money...

debby said:

14 ah, brand new NAPA wet battery. I don't remember the p/n right now, but it's the same as my Suz GS1000 used and it powered the e-start on that bike just fine. I think it's a 14LA2. I was running an older battery (same p/n) and it wouldn't stay charged either. So I ruled out the battery being the cause by fitting the new one. Throw money at the problem until you stumble into the solution or run out of money...

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As noted you'll need to measure how many volts the battery is getting at various rpms.

What kind of regulator?

Out of curiosity I contacted Hawkshaw (biggest distributer of Alton stuff), asking them about the expected availability. He said he is hoping his first shipment arrives in the fall but demand is high and he already has the first shipment (30) spoken for. I asked him if someone decided they wanted one could they send him a deposit now with the balance to be sent when he received more from Alton. He said no but said if someone is interested to send him an email and he'd notify those folks (in order of emails received) when additional units would be available.

(Started my Commando 4 times today with NO stands! Took a short ride but hardly worth talking about)