Norton Commando 1969 timing issues

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Guys you are too optimistic :D
drained the sump it didn't had much like 300 or 400 ml but but a lot of oil came out when I removed the cam cover before I was able to plug the hole. The oil tank was almost empty. Filled it up until it touched to oil cap stick but below minimum. Tea spoon of gas, ticked the carbs and kicked it over and again maximum 3 pops from the pipes like it was gonna start and after nothing. also after persisting got a bang from the carbs and some smoke like before. I adjusted the timing before 31 degrees. I am kicking it really hard. Don't have any friends around to push. Anyway if everything was set right it should start anyway. Any more advises on what to try next?
Thanks
 
Migsan said:
Guys you are too optimistic :D
drained the sump it didn't had much like 300 or 400 ml but but a lot of oil came out when I removed the cam cover before I was able to plug the hole. The oil tank was almost empty. Filled it up until it touched to oil cap stick but below minimum. Tea spoon of gas, ticked the carbs and kicked it over and again maximum 3 pops from the pipes like it was gonna start and after nothing. also after persisting got a bang from the carbs and some smoke like before. I adjusted the timing before 31 degrees. I am kicking it really hard. Don't have any friends around to push. Anyway if everything was set right it should start anyway. Any more advises on what to try next?
Thanks
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Yes OK, When you removed the cam cover some of the sump base oil would have come out then, and the oil tank can also drain too. So you were fully wet sumped. now you have it drained and the oil tank has oil in it, It always plays on old bikes to take the oil tank out and clean it well as there is old oil, sludge and metal in them and that is the last thing you want in a new bike. I guess cleaning the carbs Or at least taking the carb bowls off to see what is in them and be sure the jets are not plugged up, You can research about Amal Concentric info on how to clean them and get them to work properly, Lots of times the carb needles have "dirt" on them . and even a main jet can be plugged up, If you have debris in the bowls it probably plugged up the idle fuel jet.
 
Thanks Carl!
I should've cleaned the oil tank more thoroughly. I've done the carbs allready. They where all disassembled and cleaned. I tested all the circuit and the jets are new.
So if I keep kicking I will get wet sump again eventually?
 
Migsan said:
Thanks Carl!
I should've cleaned the oil tank more thoroughly. I've done the carbs allready. They where all disassembled and cleaned. I tested all the circuit and the jets are new.
So if I keep kicking I will get wet sump again eventually?
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Wet sumping will happen when the bike is sitting idle. Kicking the engine over won't cause it. Kicking it over will make the oil move through the system, but much more slowly than when the engine is running. Glad to see you're making progress! I think you're getting close.
 
Just something else to throw in the pot (apologies if it's been covered elsewhere... I did have a quick look). Are you 100% sure you have good fresh petrol??
 
When you cleaned the carbs and got done, did you squirt cleaning fluid under pressure like out of a spray cleaner with a tube attached in all the ports and see that it came out of all the other ones, I think there are 3 ports all together. It's been a while for me.

But also that idle port, if it's not clear it will not start. The only way to clear the idle port is stick a wire in it of the appropriate size, it's pretty tiny (.016 inches) and it's hard to know you got it, I'm sure the instructions are on the Bushman's site if he still has it. Yes it's still there, this is the bible for the Amal carb: http://www.jba.bc.ca/Bushmans Carb Tuning.html
Read it and weep. I think there is actually a drill bit of that size too, but a wire will do less damage. And then you have to get the gunk cleared from the port or it will just get back in it. Solvent will not do it.

On your starting method, are you getting through 2 compression cycles when you try? The second compression will come when the start lever is down near the bottom if you start on the top just before or at the top of compression.
 
DogT said:
When you cleaned the carbs and got done, did you squirt cleaning fluid under pressure like out of a spray cleaner with a tube attached in all the ports and see that it came out of all the other ones, I think there are 3 ports all together. It's been a while for me.

But also that idle port, if it's not clear it will not start. The only way to clear the idle port is stick a wire in it of the appropriate size, it's pretty tiny (.016 inches) and it's hard to know you got it, I'm sure the instructions are on the Bushman's site if he still has it. Yes it's still there, this is the bible for the Amal carb: http://www.jba.bc.ca/Bushmans Carb Tuning.html
Read it and weep. I think there is actually a drill bit of that size too, but a wire will do less damage. And then you have to get the gunk cleared from the port or it will just get back in it. Solvent will not do it.

On your starting method, are you getting through 2 compression cycles when you try? The second compression will come when the start lever is down near the bottom if you start on the top just before or at the top of compression.
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That is the best site I have seen on carbs. I had to learn on my own as I was working in the old days,, when there was no web or computers . But recently I have improved my techniques. So an old dog , has to learn new tricks to keep up with the pups.
 
Sorry if you have checked this already but my eyes were starting to cross 8 pages in but have you checked the valve lash clearance? I’m currently on my first Norton rebuild and have not got to the point of trying to start it yet but I have rebuilt may mx dirt bikes and it the valve clearence is not correct you can kick till you are blue I. The face and the best you will get is a back fire pop from the exhaust. Can’t hurt to check anyway
 
yes I checked and set the valve clearance previously. I use a very thin guitar string to clean the carbs and followed bushman's site it's very good.
I haven't had time today to push start the bike but I will post the outcome it ASAP
thank you all
 
Migsan said:
I haven't had time today to push start the bike but I will post the outcome it ASAP
thank you all
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As has been mentioned in this episodic saga before, what goes downhill easily won't come up with similar aplomb. A Norton should start with the kick starter.

I applaud the steps you have taken to identify and rid your Norton of the gremlin(s); I'm also impressed with the suggestions contributing members have made to share their experiences without resorting to astrology, which, at this point, may be as helpful...

You need 4 elements to make an internal combustion engine run: 1) air, 2) fuel, 3) COMPRESSION and 4) a spark.

You stated: "I have no means of testing compression..."

Before you push this Norton down any hill or have a pair of pushing teams to assist YOU MUST CHECK THE F%$#ing COMPRESSION!!! A cheap compression tester will be more than worth its' weight in gold, can be purchased on-line and will tell you, even with a "cold" engine, if the cylinders have enough to fire the air/fuel mixture. You can get a credible idea by engaging 4th gear, bring one of the cylinders to TDC, having an assistant apply the rear brake while you apply about 20 PSI to te spark plug hole (applying more won't be necessary, and may harbor some degree of danger). If you have made a good seal on the spark plug hole you should be able to hear where the leak is; be sure that the ignition is off and that the fuel taps are in the off with the float bowls have been emptied.

Do not, under ANY circumstances, use a vacuum cleaner on the plug hole, most members know the story of a well meaning chap that went to change his spark plugs, saw the usual deutritius surrounding the now empty spark plug hole, gets his vacuum cleaner begins cleaning the deutritus and quickly discovers that the modest vacuum cleaner has become a flaming turbo-jet engine, duty it wasn't designed for, but the poor device did yeoman's service morphing into a flame thrower making the original task of changing spark plugs very moot as the car, the garage and the attached house turned into an insurance claim.

You said you set the valve clearance(s), how many threads were left showing above the jam nut(s)? The Ace that rebuilt the engine may have installed the pistons according to the marking (left & right), but ignored the reality of not noticing that the intake valves are closer together than the exhausts. I posted a picture ages ago showing one of my customers experience with this after paying a local mechanic to rebuild his Commando engine, which actually ran for 300 miles....

Buy a cheap compression tester, your sanity has to be worth more than what you have gone through.

Do let us know what the compression tester tells you.

Best.
 
"When you cleaned the carbs and got done, did you squirt cleaning fluid under pressure like out of a spray cleaner with a tube attached in all the ports and see that it came out of all the other ones, I think there are 3 ports all together."

OP, you have avoided answering this question.
I can't count how many "cleaned" carburetors still won't run due to incomplete cleaning/VERIFYING of flow.
 
Carl H said:
But he's polite and trying and trying hard, And a Thank you or two, go a long way in my book . And he lives in a place where parts are not so readily available in lock down.
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Man, I wanted to hop on a plane with my tool box and go help him get it going, I almost can't stand it.

Yes, I KNOW he's doing his best! I would have thought we might have another member near enough to pitch in physically...
 
I think we all feel his pain and frustration, which is remarkably well tempered, just hope the poor man doesn't end up pushing it halfway across Portugal to no avail....
 
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