Norton 850 project(s)

grandpaul said:

Camp6 said:

... if I were to fix a bike for him (at his cost) and give it back to him in running condition (not full restore), he would allow me to assemble another running bike as payment. The remainin 1.75 bikes and parts will go back to him.

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If he is paying for the parts & sublet machinework, plating, painting, etc., I see this deal as a TOTAL no-brainer!

Take all the best parts for YOUR bike, send out the next-best parts for re-finishing. Use the better core parts for yours (as-is) send the next-best core parts for machinework, etc.

I would venture a guess that you can get your "payment" bike running at VERY low cost (tires, battery, carb kits and a few minor items), resulting in an excellent return for putting in 120 - 150 hours work.

IF you can talk him into also splitting the proceeds of the final parts sell-off, that's icing on the cake.

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I agree. You can take your learning curve out on his bike. As for the title thing I've got a 74' and I'm beginning to think it's a 73' that was assembled in 76', so not that uncommon. Get that title and jump in with both feet and sock away atleast 5 grand for your own rebuild, cause you'll need it.

" It seems every bit of maintainence/overhaul requires some trick or mod to put the design failings right."- Old Bloke
So true!

There are too many unknown untill you split the cases and have a look at the crank and closely inspect all rods, gears, head, cam, followers, etc.

$2K - $3K is possible, but only if basic overhaul, basic re-spray and new seat cover & tires (not total re-plating of chrome, replate fasteners (or new), strip & powdercoat frame, total strip & repaint of bodywork, all new cables, wiring, chain, etc.). I might have wild guessed more like $3,500 - $4K.

Again, if you get to select all the best parts for YOUR bike (without re-finishing), and use the next-best parts for the owner's bike (to receive re-finishing at HIS cost), YOUR total cost to have a running bike might be very low indeed. His cost will be reasonable for what he will receive.

If you are retired, and the cost of your time isn't going to come into it, then this could work.

Just the cost of parts for these will be $3k or $4k each, lotta rust there.
And all those little packets of bolts etc will add up, Norton bolts don't grow on supermarket shelves.

And, hey, you get the best seat (?).
Although figure on replacing that too, the foam settles... ?

Thanks again to all of you. The comments and suggestions are beyond helpful. Although sightly timid about some matters, I think the project will be fun and enjoyable for my kids and I to tackle. I never let them around my Ducati much becasue "helping" was scratching swirls in the fairings... :evil: , but I foresee this being better now that they're older. I figure becasue I will be comelting his first, he will obviously be footing the bill for the whitworth tools and all required parts for his. I agree that the learning curve will be broken on his bike. I imagine/hope that once the first is complete, mine will be more like a walk in the park. I have already built a motorcycle work bench (2'x2'x6') to help with the project.
Again thank you all for your advise...I'll keep you posted and will for sure reach out for insight throughout the project(s)...

You have your work cut out for you here.

After seeing these bikes...they all are pure rolling basket cases.

So, the question is what are the expectations? To just get them running and on the road or restoration? There is a big difference in cost between the two.

I just finished a 1987 Honda Hurricane and put $3K into it. That one had a running engine with low miles.

If you go down to frame and do a proper restoration figure minimum of $5K in parts and 100's of hours. I hope your young and don't care much about your time because even at $5 an hour your giving up way more than all of those bikes together are worth.

You could buy a nice Commando that runs and walk away from this deal and be way ahead.

I wouldn't touch this deal with a 10 foot pole.

Good luck.

Try kicking the engine over in both bikes. If they turn over buy the one with the least rust and pay cash. The open ended deal could cost you a bomb. With British bikes the mindset is different . They are completely rebuildable, and if you have a problem, it is usually easy to engineer your way around it. I still have a Japanese based bike, however I don't love it like my Seeley Commando 850. I could easily sell the Japanese bike, I would never sell my Norton. It keeps me alive.

Camp6 said:

I imagine/hope that once the first is complete, mine will be more like a walk in the park.

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Good luck with that concept.
Mk2 is fairly different to MK 3.

I found that the 2nd threw up a whole different set of problems, and the 3rd likewise, etc. !!
(not all Commandos, I may add).

---------------
Patron Saint of some real lost causes...

It's hard to decide on how to attack this project. I think I'd take the one you have already decided on keeping and put it in the back of the shop and not touch it till you complete the other bike. There are too many parts unique to it that are different on the other 3 bikes so don't even add them to the mix. Since all the rusted parts are the same on all the other 3 (wheels, front tubes ect) you won't be robbing too many parts off these bikes to fix the 1st so you may as well just dismantle the one the owner wants and slowly start cleaning up what you can and replacing what you have to to get it running. When you get his done make sure you can keep the other parts bikes till you get yours running.

How old are your sons? Maybe you can work a deal to get a second bike for them (since they will be the ones who get to do most of the sanding, grinding and polishing and other fun stuff)

You see, lots of advice on your project, and in true forum style, not a concencus in sight

The only thing that makes me feel uneasy, is this suggestion that it's a great deal because you can "learn", or lets be honest, make the mistakes on the first bike, in this case your customers bike? If I was him and reading this thread, I'd not be feeling re-assured. If I wanted my house plastered, I'd prefer the tradesman not to use my house to practice on so that when he did his, it was OK!

I guess he knows that in "Norton" terms you are not a specialist, more of an enthusiastic potential owner, again depends on his expectations, and you did say he does not expect a restoration?

I have a sense of deja-vu on that subject, I'm sure I remember a story on the forum somewhere where a well meaning individual spent a load of customers money on a rebuild, and it all went sour.

Apologies, sounds awful negative, I've not had any coffe yet today.

" if I were to fix a bike for him (at his cost) and give it back to him in running condition "

you cant loose . BUT ,

youll need a decent clean work area . Lots of old papers to dismantle components on , and toss ( Toss the PAPEr . DONT toss ANY Components , no matter what you think of them ) .

AND

Run out a list of rReplacement Parts & Cost , beforehand . So as to avoid altercations . :lol:

Pevious Advice . Yes . Do His , before getting sidetracked . Theres a awfull lot of time involved communeing with components .
Quick way is commercial ' stripping ' , Plateing , etc etc .

Id be doing the powerplant first . Clean All Components miticulously ( this is where a Hot tank is a time saver ), and oil .
Now the FUN starts .
Whats Stuffed . :idea:

Split Crankshaft & Oil Pump first off . Then you need new Rod Bolts & Crank Bolts , and one or two other things . :lol:
Think of a number , double it , and add 10% for coasting .

Youll be some time chaseing stuff , and its gotta be O.E.M. or BETTER .

Generally its a Saga or Oddesey , a Real One . Not one of the instant cardboard cut out Japanese ones ! If you have masochistic tendancies youll find it character building .

Might pay to get a Signed Contract , if the guy smiles a lot , and says ' Its only ' , a bit to often . :mrgreen:

Looks to me like those two bikes might have had their front ends swapped at some time.

The VIN for the bikes are;
Red (title): 305916
Blue with torn seat (no title): 301360
Black (title): 334178
Frame (title): 331798

When looking at the lot of them today, I think my best course of action is going to take the frame (that only has lower of motor) attached and start from there and work my way up using the "blue" bike and the other parts that came from taht bike origionally. Since it's already taken apart it'll easierto work up from there.

Can anyone advise as to the proper years on these bikes as to the VIN? From what I can see the "305" is a 1973 and the "301" is a 1973, but I can't find clarification on the "331" and the "334". I believe that they are 75 or 77 MKIII's but I can't find a site to say for sure.

Camp6 said:

Can anyone advise as to the proper years on these bikes as to the VIN? From what I can see the "305" is a 1973 and the "301" is a 1973,

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Yes.

Camp6 said:

but I can't find clarification on the "331" and the "334". I believe that they are 75 or 77 MKIII's but I can't find a site to say for sure.

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http://atlanticgreen.com/commandoframes.htm

Both "331" and "334" numbers are 850 MkIII, so theoretically, they should date from 1975, however there is a chance that "334178" (only a few numbers away from my own 33419x "7/75" date stamped MkIII) may not have been completed and/or dispatched until some months later.

So I went and picked up 2 of the bikes this weekend, along with 6 boxes of parts. My plan is to photo it all, will post and then start taking apart and assess what parts need to/can stay and what parts will need to go and be replaced.

So "Big Red" is up in the stirups and ready for a new birth...(sorry bad mental image). I began removing the beyond restorable parts yesterday and got her up on the bench. My nexct paln is to take all the parts i received and to sort them. There are many parts from different 850's and I think once I sort them out I can begin to decide which ones are "better than others" and go from there. Can anyone advise which parts from different years are compatable. I think someone had advised from a prior post of the VIN that I had 2: MKII and 2: MKIII, at least that's how I read the reply.


And for another question, there is a random rod comping from the top of the head and I can't seem to find any other pics or data that would explain what or why it's there? It appears to be threaded into the head in place where the rocker covers should be.


Well it had begun and i am really looking forward to the project. Hope to get the MKIII bike and frame here soon.

You ought to start a new project thread for each bike to keep them from getting too mixed up.

Perhaps you have a rod-link head steady, or part of one, mounted atop that head? They are recommended upgrades on Commandos.

Yea , a marker pen might be usefull , and a lot of room & boxes .

And a Dry Shed to throw all these ' beyond restorable ' parts .

They restore aeroplanes from a replaced I.D. tag if the originals readable .
A 44 gallon ( 50 U.S. ) gallon drum of diesel to drop em in wouldnt do any harm .

ONCE youre FINISHED we might let you trow them out . IF you let us have a look at them first .


A few packets of the Zip Lock plastic bags , so assemblies are still complete , or together .

But Id get to the heart of the thing FIRST . the Crank . While youre stuffing around waiting for unobtainium ,
youll have time to sort out the idiosycrocies or the remainder .

Hope youve got a good set of spanners . FIRST is one for the nut up under the rear of the barrel holding the head down .
And dont go of half cocked . Proper fit tools - Before Removeing. RATHER than ' trying ' to remove & mauling .

A positive mental attitude , is wot some prescripe as a prerequisette . Make sure youre sure , & if not , ASK - - FIRST .

Topping What .

Yes, you really need to mark clearly what came off each bike.
So that like can be replaced with like.

And that new thread here for each bike sounds like a very good idea.

I thought I had asked before, but don't believe I understand fully...as to the "spanners" I have read much about Norton's having different size nuts/bolts and the whole "Whitworth" measurement (BSM) sizing. Do I need to get some BSM or will the Metric/Standard sets I have work. I haven't had any issues thus far, but also don't want to get on a roll and then have to stop with possible issues with an uncooperative bolt.

Thanks again for the input, I'll definitely start a separate thread for each project. The parts that are left over are to go back to the owner for spares. There will at that point be 2 frames and parts for each, so there may actually be a possibility for a 3rd bike (but would be a morph) of MKII/MKIII parts on the MKIII frame.