New Norton facilities in Solihull

Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
5,104
Country flag
I was wondering if they were doing some work around to sell Euro 4 spec bikes?
The workaround is a 1 year exemption for existing Euro 4 designs so you can sell them for an extra year, but listing it as a 961 Classic seems to negate that unless its just identified as a model year change on an existing design.
 

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
14,972
Country flag
The workaround is a 1 year exemption for existing Euro 4 designs so you can sell them for an extra year, but listing it as a 961 Classic seems to negate that unless its just identified as a model year change on an existing design.
An extra year... from when...?
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
3,894
Country flag
A fair point well put!
No one will ever blame them for not taking their time ! Them showing the same 2 or 3 bikes on the build tables again and again . I think the first ownership has me jaded . With a 110 employees mind you , what are they doing ? Don't get me wrong , I want them to succeed . But current Commando owners deserve 10 years of continued support from the date the last 961 was built in 2021 . If they don't do this , they WON'T be getting any more of my money .
 
Last edited:

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
14,972
Country flag
Tony, in regards to TVS supporting the 961 longer term, I think they will.

The fact they chose to build the ‘classic’ really surprised me because without doing this they would have had the ideal opportunity to draw a line under it, pin all faults and issues and liability on the old company, and move on (a bit like Bloor did with the T140).

But they have chosen to include it as part of the new Norton, and as part of their product portfolio. So I believe this means they will have to support it. And this will have been known to them, so must have been a conscious decision.
 
Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
5,104
Country flag
An extra year... from when...?
Jan 2021


The proposal supported by the two legislative bodies will cover only the vehicles that were in stock at the moment when national lockdowns were introduced across the EU. More specifically, the amount of vehicles benefiting from the revised end-of-series measures will not exceed the number of Euro 4 L-category vehicles in stock in the EU on 15 March 2020, which was estimated by industry experts at around 550,000 units.

Norton must be stretching the 'in stock' term ;)

or using this

EU type-approval rules foresaw a flexibility mechanism called “end of series”, which allowed manufacturers to continue making available on the market, register or enter into service a limited part of their stock of Euro 4 vehicles.
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
3,894
Country flag
Tony, in regards to TVS supporting the 961 longer term, I think they will.

The fact they chose to build the ‘classic’ really surprised me because without doing this they would have had the ideal opportunity to draw a line under it, pin all faults and issues and liability on the old company, and move on (a bit like Bloor did with the T140).

But they have chosen to include it as part of the new Norton, and as part of their product portfolio. So I believe this means they will have to support it. And this will have been known to them, so must have been a conscious decision.
I hope you're right . :)
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
1,529
Country flag
Looking at the agreement with NA, it appears TVS may need to discuss that with the Chinese who Garner granted licences, though I don't see the chinese standing in the way. Hopefully the deal was not an exclusive one, or TVS have resolved that deal in their favour.

Simple solution to the parts issue is for TVS to find the old suppliers and see if they kept stock of items garner never paid for. I know some exist, but the unfinished unpiad for cylinder barrels went in the skip bar the 2 I rescued. v4 swing arms are still about, but these would be doorstops or only worth scrapping after the report on the V4.

When visitng suppliers in the Midlands back in 2016, some wanted to do nasty things as they thought I was part of Garners empire, quite a few it seems were not paid.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
1,529
Country flag
Jan 2021


The proposal supported by the two legislative bodies will cover only the vehicles that were in stock at the moment when national lockdowns were introduced across the EU. More specifically, the amount of vehicles benefiting from the revised end-of-series measures will not exceed the number of Euro 4 L-category vehicles in stock in the EU on 15 March 2020, which was estimated by industry experts at around 550,000 units.

Norton must be stretching the 'in stock' term ;)

or using this

EU type-approval rules foresaw a flexibility mechanism called “end of series”, which allowed manufacturers to continue making available on the market, register or enter into service a limited part of their stock of Euro 4 vehicles.
Correct, but there is also a percentage limitation on this based on passed sales of that specific model - and the manufacturers / dealers had to apply to sell them. However this EU regulation was also dropped by the UK as part of brexit, not sure if and what the UK adapted in its place, or just retitled it, though at the moment it looks like the UK retailers are just following the EU regs as that is what most bikes they sell will be built to. anyway.

Europa website has more detail and the actual latest regulation.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Messages
16
Country flag
Jan 2021


The proposal supported by the two legislative bodies will cover only the vehicles that were in stock at the moment when national lockdowns were introduced across the EU. More specifically, the amount of vehicles benefiting from the revised end-of-series measures will not exceed the number of Euro 4 L-category vehicles in stock in the EU on 15 March 2020, which was estimated by industry experts at around 550,000 units.

Norton must be stretching the 'in stock' term ;)

or using this

EU type-approval rules foresaw a flexibility mechanism called “end of series”, which allowed manufacturers to continue making available on the market, register or enter into service a limited part of their stock of Euro 4 vehicles.
Building 40 end-of-series Commandos, all makes sense when you consider regulatory compliance, new factory, supply chain, new staff, training plus the time needed to design and tool up for next generation Nortons ...

... meanwhile I'm waiting, patiently, for my own Commando 961 Classic to be finished and delivered.

Certainly I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this batch of Commandos will demonstrate a step change in quality compared to Garners mess-ups.

To me no-news is good news, take all the time you need to build a perfect Norton Commando guys & gals at Norton Sollihul.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
1,679
Country flag
Asking out of pure ignorance, but are TVS legally obligated to supply spares back up (or service) for models they did not produce??
Yes, I know they're pushing out a few 961s, but if these differ on a detail level from that which went before will that help current owners???
 

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
14,972
Country flag
Asking out of pure ignorance, but are TVS legally obligated to supply spares back up (or service) for models they did not produce??
Yes, I know they're pushing out a few 961s, but if these differ on a detail level from that which went before will that help current owners???

It’s a good question, and I don’t know the answer.

But I’ll say this, it would be very rich of them not support the ‘old’ 961s whilst simultaneously shouting ‘continuous use’ from the rooftops ref the TM topic !!

And, more practically, there is no way they are gonna substantially re design anything major for a 40 bike production run. So even if they claimed not to support the ‘old’ bikes, I think that by default, they would be.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
1,679
Country flag
I didn't expect substantial re design either, but, being ignorant of what else they have in the world marketplace at the moment might they 'adapt and survive' with in house parts to draw a line under these???
(Perhaps they'll do a 'Citroen' and offer a 'buy back' too :) )
 

ntst8

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Feb 14, 2004
Messages
1,377
Country flag
Asking out of pure ignorance, but are TVS legally obligated to supply spares back up (or service) for models they did not produce??
Yes, I know they're pushing out a few 961s, but if these differ on a detail level from that which went before will that help current owners???
The EU have rules about that i think - 9 years? Post Brexit who knows?
 

cliffa

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
2,018
Country flag
I suppose they have taken legal advice on this, but by building 40 more 961's are they making themselves liable to provide spares for a set period after that run has finished?
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
1,679
Country flag
I suppose they have taken legal advice on this, but by building 40 more 961's are they making themselves liable to provide spares for a set period after that run has finished?
I'm sure they must be... but perhaps only for those 40?????
 

Vernon240

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Mar 18, 2021
Messages
163
Country flag
as far as approval of the 40 bikes is concerned, there is always the MSVA route?
Would this be an option? I think it might....
 

Clive

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
751
Country flag
While the long term or even current supply of spares seems sketchy it Looks like Ollie in Germany is doing a sterling job not only of stocking spares but commissioning new improved spares and designing upgrades. The more business we put his way the more he will do for us to keep our bikes on the road! I just hope the new Norton don't set their legal hyenas on him as happened before to any company which tried to produce anything to attach to their bikes.
 
Top