Needing Air

Ta hobot.
Tyre died in a country town upriver due to me playing with the new found low-range throttle. I guess the 120 tyre decided to do less revs than the back wheel rim.
The chart details only the info I was after for this phase. Running 200 main jets and long needles gives a distinct AFR kink on the chart so I can determine the revs when needle taper and main jet kick in (these are in the next tuning phase considerations). I have not posted that portion of the chart to deter the pedants (and proxies) from fixating on it even though it is not relevant at this time.
Ta.

Re: Needing Air and fuel sorted above 5000rpm

What I got from the last dyno run and what I plan and expect from the next to assess the 5000+rpm range.
Ta.

NGK BP6EY plugs after 300km of country riding with EGR at 720-740°C.
Ta.

Nice spark plugs and interesting to see the a/f they are so happy to burn. i have some tire straining time to flat state you did not over power a proper inflated, ie: over 25 psi 120 tire in rim so got a slow leak or pinched tube that lost clamp force. If you are not scared of it running out from under you a 110 less mass response will be noticed. A normal Combat can chrip on 2nd and sometimes 3rd and can take clutch drop launches w/o a rim lock if normal air. A picky tuner would expose the procilien bases too. Rim locks needed to take the hook up on soft aired traction to break below 11 sec though.

hobot said:

Nice spark plugs and interesting to see the a/f they are so happy to burn. i have some tire straining time to flat state you did not over power a proper inflated, ie: over 25 psi 120 tire in rim so got a slow leak or pinched tube that lost clamp force. If you are not scared of it running out from under you a 110 less mass response will be noticed. A normal Combat can chrip on 2nd and sometimes 3rd and can take clutch drop launches w/o a rim lock if normal air. A picky tuner would expose the procilien bases too. Rim locks needed to take the hook up on soft aired traction to break below 11 sec though.

Click to expand...

Hi hobot.
Funny you should mention the chirp. I thought at the time it was the clutch snatch but maybe the tyre if I think hard on it. Actual rear pressure was 28psi and 26psi in the front (set cold that morning).
Ta.

Here ya go hobot.
Ta.

Are those the spots on the insulators that you get from detonation?

Triton Thrasher said:

Are those the spots on the insulators that you get from detonation?

Click to expand...

A tad hot at 14:1 AFR so the plan is to tune for 13/13.5:1AFR (see sketch-up screen plot above).
Ta.
Oh. These are the 'town' plugs.

Re: Needing Air and fuel sorted above 5000rpm

needing said:

What I got from the last dyno run and what I plan and expect from the next to assess the 5000+rpm range.
Ta.

Click to expand...

Your dyno video clip appears to be a WOT rip to 8000 rpm. Could you please explain how you are conducting the dyno testing to get the A/F ratios associated with partial throttle operation?

A hi tuned engine run up through power band on some load should be slightly detonating or ya not making best tuned power. Only issue is can not run like that for long as ya run out of space allowing it, so dangerous * unless conditions change so it moderately to severely detonates to damage. Read up on Oxygen sensor issues and factors influencing a/f read outs.

Tire pressure over 25 psi should not slip in rim. Peel once out out accelerated a 900 Monster with a light weight track trained gal on it - to catch back up after I waited behind a car in a straight so they could see what they could not catch other wise- and instantly nailed it past me - do snick down to what I though was 2nd but only 3rd which took off 3rd gear teeth, on 18 psi rear 15 psi front d/t having to cross dozens of yards of quick sand like mud to reach terra firma and had not got to air station on hwy to top off my usual 28/26 - when this Squadron of 10 I had been seeing around finally showed up with me on Peel in area I knew well. With that low psi I could only match the Maonster in the tight turns with the pilot knee dragging and me upright easing around d/t the tire deforming but even that did not could not upset tri-links. That led to one the funniest Peel events. Me & this gal got to my village square so far ahead of rest of squadron I walked into clinic to pee inside office then came back out and was not able to see Peel with all the pilots standing and squatting around muddy Peel to hear them arguing on where the turbo was hidden, when I said not installed yet the whole group jerked up so sharp some of them feel back on their heels which made the suddenly stiffened standers stumble back a couple steps too. I aired up and led this hot shot Monster for about 5 miles through nice twisties but on first open about 1/4 mile long she could out horse power Peel after the ton and did damit which put me on needless power to weight process. Turns out the Monster Squad was mostly dentists but the gal was only one I could pull out their pack and asked here is she had track time and told yes.

When ya ready to go against Combat power making wisdoms and control mods to get spunk to tease these moderns w insane handling hook up capacity - ping me. Just realize how deadly dangerous tempting race level power applied in public is, but longer lasting hi than shooting up with cocaine or screwing married women with big bad husbands.

Re: Needing Air and fuel sorted above 5000rpm

WZ507 said:

needing said:

What I got from the last dyno run and what I plan and expect from the next to assess the 5000+rpm range.
Ta.

Click to expand...

Your dyno video clip appears to be a WOT rip to 8000 rpm. Could you please explain how you are conducting the dyno testing to get the A/F ratios associated with partial throttle operation?

Click to expand...

Sure. I'm very happy with the pilot circuit and transition to cutaway and initial needle jet draw without the leaned-out flat spot. Needle jet will change from 105 to 106 to lower AFR especially at the last few mm of the parallel section, the long needle at middle notch will become short needle at middle notch (initially) to move the taper start up by 2mm. This means the main jet will also reach full flow earlier and will change from 200 to 220/230/240 as determined by dyno. Hope that helps explains the sketch-up better.
Ta.
Hi hobot.
At last year's rally I chased a Norvin through some twistys no problem, he pulled away a bit during curves but really took off on the straights. The hard braking into the twistys blued my disc but it was because of the flat spot at low throttle crack opening (I am tuning to fix that now) that couldn't get me passed him. Also, that's when I thought a fork brace (maybe Hyde) would be a good thing.

Re: Needing Air and fuel sorted above 5000rpm

needing said:

WZ507 said:

needing said:

What I got from the last dyno run and what I plan and expect from the next to assess the 5000+rpm range.
Ta.

Click to expand...

Your dyno video clip appears to be a WOT rip to 8000 rpm. Could you please explain how you are conducting the dyno testing to get the A/F ratios associated with partial throttle operation?

Click to expand...

Sure. I'm very happy with the pilot circuit and transition to cutaway and initial needle jet draw without the leaned-out flat spot. Needle jet will change from 105 to 106 to lower AFR especially at the last few mm of the parallel section, the long needle at middle notch will become short needle at middle notch (initially) to move the taper start up by 2mm. This means the main jet will also reach full flow earlier and will change from 200 to 220/230/240 as determined by dyno. Hope that helps explains the sketch-up better.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your comments, but that was not the information I hoped to get from you. I was actually asking about the specific dyno test protocol you are using, e.g., dyno operated in steady state load condition and variety of partial throttle runs evaluated? Because the plot has no x-axis label we don't know what it represents (engine speed?, throttle position?, or what?). Your labels in the graph suggest throttle position, but you must also have engine speed to go along with it? So if you could shed some light on the dyno test method and source of plot data it would be appreciated.

Hi WZ507
The photo of the screen shows the extension of earlier posted truncated AFR paper graph. The sketch-ups are my assessment of the current AFR and the plans to further alter carbys. The video posted is only the last minute of data collection for the entire rev range. The top end power is no big deal to me as I go there only occasionally but it is nice to know my bike can pull near 8000rpm one-off without detriment should I ever need to. Mostly I was chasing the lower end data to prove my current changes: when [new data is] pertinent, I will keep you posted.
Ta.

Keep him posted, sheeze watch your language as women may be looking on.

Hi hobot.
At last year's rally I chased a Norvin through some twistys no problem, he pulled away a bit during curves but really took off on the straights. The hard braking into the twistys blued my disc but it was because of the flat spot at low throttle crack opening (I am tuning to fix that now) that couldn't get me passed him. Also, that's when I thought a fork brace (maybe Hyde) would be a good thing.

Click to expand...

Cool ya know not to ever lift extra finger to capitalize my handle. I know all about curves being the equalizer and scares the shit out of me how hard you must of been working and not realize how close to out of control either of ya were on untamed isolastics. Obiviously you know not to get too cofident on these clunkers. Rotors are made to get blue as long as no fade thats how ya supposed to break in new brakes so congrates it worked as designed and backs up my findings ya can not fet a factory lockhead to fade by heat unless maybe porposely dragging down Rockty Mt to desert level. Of course you are only concerned with mature low down pleasant grunt just shudding off spirts to 8 grand, hehe rationalization like that are my stock in trade to face the blood sport in comfy numb denial. BTW most O2 sensors only sense well at WOT.

Needing feedback please.
1. Who is running AMAL Mark 1 Concentrics?
2. What is your gripes/concerns (in ranked order) about them?
3. What features do you like about them?
4. What features don't they have that you may consider changing to another brand for?
5. If you have changed, why? In ranked order please. Would you change back to AMALs?
Ta.

This needs to be a new thread, since there are only about 5 folks reading/updating this ?

The answer to most of the above is that its hard to neatly fit a pair of most brands of carb in there,
AND keep the stock air filter in place...

Rohan said:

This needs to be a new thread, since there are only about 5 folks reading/updating this ?

The answer to most of the above is that its hard to neatly fit a pair of most brands of carb in there,
AND keep the stock air filter in place...

Click to expand...

Dear rohan.
Thank you for proofreading my original post.
I glean from your response that you retain Mk 1 AMALs solely to allow fitment of the original aircleaner types.
Ta.

Ta, having the original style aircleaner in a very dusty environment was a big bonus.
I just chucked out something elses' aftermarket foam aircleaners, they started dissolving into foamdust...

There are SO many threads here too about "my aftermarket carbs don't carburate correctly"
that it would seem to be real lottery to get something that works correctly,
who needs that. ?

At least with stock amals we can usually arrive at where those sort of problems are caused.
Corrosion/gunge/blocked jets being the common usual culprits = not really amals fault.

needing said:

Needing feedback please.
1. Who is running AMAL Mark 1 Concentrics?
2. What is your gripes/concerns (in ranked order) about them?
3. What features do you like about them?
4. What features don't they have that you may consider changing to another brand for?
5. If you have changed, why? In ranked order please. Would you change back to AMALs?
Ta.

Click to expand...

Twin 928s on a Triumph 650.

They're inclined to hesitate, off over-run.

Triton Thrasher said:

They're inclined to hesitate, off over-run.

Click to expand...

Tried one grade warmer spark plugs ?
Or fitted new jets and needles lately ??

Or the Triumph forum !!