Mid-Ohio race did not go well

I am glad you were unharmed. The bike is repairable, you are not so much.

It is quite odd to see Maney cases split wide open. Quite the forces at play there.

I hope the fine people at Hanes or Jockey sent you some new underwear

Glad you made it through okay Doug, thanks for posting the photos. I would be curious to see what the inside of the engine looks like ( what"s left of it anyway)

I had to laugh when I read that. My first thought was for Doug to send the cases to Hobot cause he's probably got some JB weld that would fix that

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Don't ya know that seriously crossed my mind for a time on Doug's horrific cases. If the bores didn't get out of line nor seams too distorted it might actually work. Cases were punched out not split by letting go from power load. Bolts and dowels hold cases aligned together so Doug's may only need sealing oil back in. Devon also come to mind. We might chip in on new set of leather after a ride down like that, which already had a rather messy looking bottom end.

FUDGE .

ok don't ya know Doug has already thought of glueing the expense case puzzle back together again. Maybe he'll laugh about it in a decade or so.

hobot said:

I had to laugh when I read that. My first thought was for Doug to send the cases to Hobot cause he's probably got some JB weld that would fix that

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Don't ya know that seriously crossed my mind for a time on Doug's horrific cases. If the bores didn't get out of line nor seams too distorted it might actually work. Cases were punched out not split by letting go from power load. Bolts and dowels hold cases aligned together so Doug's may only need sealing oil back in. Devon also come to mind. We might chip in on new set of leather after a ride down like that, which already had a rather messy looking bottom end.

Click to expand...

LOL
I knew it. I read you like a book. ! A bent ruffled dog-eared one!
CNN

Dkt26 said:

Doug
Hats off too you sir. You must have titanium nuts to get back on after such an escape.
Fullauto, hats off to you too sir. You're a gentleman. Helping someone out because you can. Again, well done.
This is a good thing folks. Don't kill it. It was kind of Doug to share and kind of ken to help. It should be acknowledged not analysed and demeaned.

Well done fellas

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to demean anything or anybody - just stating the facts. If businesses like FullAuto were enthusiasts truly in business for the benefit of Nortons and the owners and to keep the bikes on the road then they'd be selling products at cost - but I'm not that naive. I'm happy to pay good money for quality products and accept the vendors are making a profit. Jerry Doe is happy for businesses to advertise their products via this site and then plenty of people comment how grateful they are for businesses to supply these products - typically having no more knowledge/experience of the product other than the vendors description and a picture. I don't know of any business advertising products they are attempting to sell as a "piece of crap", although from experience I have found some businesses are obviously contravening the trades description act.

I get the impression there are plenty of people who like to try associating themselves with what they perceive to be successful brands/businesses/individuals - but I really don't know why.

Al-otment said:

SteveA said:

You mean you are not one of the Norton parts suppliers out there cashing in on the popularity of classic motorcycles?

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Don't be naive - unless you can supply me with details of the registered charity that any one of these retail outlets are generating money for then I think you'll find the number one priority they are in the classic bike market is to improve their own bank balance. Sponsoring an apparently well known (at least on these pages) racer by donating a head (possible cost to the supplier I'm guessing at £500) is good value for money in advertising alone.

Tell me, what's the bill for your latest engine rebuild so far?

Click to expand...

Simon, you comments are not only made on your one note trumpet, they are disingenuous in deliberately quoting only part of my post. I am not as naive as you seem to think. Or as naive as you seem to be about the running of a commercial business and profit margins (I have just filed my yearly accounts this week!)....

This is the whole of what I wrote:

'You mean you are not one of the Norton parts suppliers out there cashing in on the popularity of classic motorcycles?

Don't give up the day job......mine funded me buying one of your heads, just about, and I am happy with the fact that you choose someone who can properly promote your products as a recipient of what is in effect sponsorship. It is in your gift and it makes sense all round.'

Of course this is sponsorship, I said so, and of course it is good value to Fullauto, but it is also good value to Doug. Ken does not have to do it. No sponsor has to do it. I applaud Ken for his commercial sense in this one as well as his generosity. His action represents both and his timing is opportunistic too (which is in this case a good thing).

I hope his commercial sense keeps him in business in the future and he develops other products I would like to own/use. Profit is not a dirty word. If my company does not make profit it does not pay me the money I spend on my build, project over. Everyone you deal with in life is making a profit from you or going out of business...do you shop in Tesco Sainsbury etc. or prefer to starve? Don't take it personally, it is how the world works.

And you never know, I may want another new head through Mick Hemmings in the future. The same as I may want another set of Maney cases, or JSM pistons/rods, Norman White belt drive or any number of AN parts and Jim Comstock goodies.

I want suppliers to make profit and stay in business, because it is in my interest just the same as I want to keep working and get paid a fair crust, because it is in my interest.

I have spent a fair amount on my engine so far of course I have, and on the rest of the bike too with people like Maxton and Mojomotorbikes (frame repairs and S/A), Peter Keyte (alloy tanks), NRP (exhausts) and TTi (even if the gearbox was used I needed other parts).

I have spread my expenditure around the suppliers I have mentioned and local engineering shops and fabricators. I sincerely want them all to be in business and there when I need them again. I don't think I have added enough to the turnover of any one for them to start living in luxury. The thing that has amazed me is the hours some work in a week to make their crust, generally, its more than I do!

Fullauto is being there when Doug needs him, because he can. Long may that spirit continue.

How did the push rods get out in one piece?...sorry to be getting back on track....no pun intended!
The destruction is interesting, i read custom made rods..more info please..and deffo more pictures

Doug MacRae said:

I was fastest in practice Friday but Saturday morning my freshly rebuilt motor with new forged pistons and Bore-tech hardened liners broke a rod when I was flat out in 4th gear, 100+mph (it's a 5 speed); without any warning the rear wheel locked and I fishtailed down the track, kept it upright somehow and ran it into the generous turn 1 sand trap. Turns out one of my custom made rods had apparently reached the end of it's race life. Very expensive race motor (Maney cases, Maney barrels, trick crank, etc. etc. was completely destroyed. The rod blew out the bottom of the cases and actually hit directly on the frame cross tube with such force it bent it outwards and left a finger deep dent in it.

Click to expand...

Al-otment said:

Dkt26 said:

Doug
Hats off too you sir. You must have titanium nuts to get back on after such an escape.
Fullauto, hats off to you too sir. You're a gentleman. Helping someone out because you can. Again, well done.
This is a good thing folks. Don't kill it. It was kind of Doug to share and kind of ken to help. It should be acknowledged not analysed and demeaned.

Well done fellas

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to demean anything or anybody - just stating the facts. If businesses like FullAuto were enthusiasts truly in business for the benefit of Nortons and the owners and to keep the bikes on the road then they'd be selling products at cost - but I'm not that naive. I'm happy to pay good money for quality products and accept the vendors are making a profit. Jerry Doe is happy for businesses to advertise their products via this site and then plenty of people comment how grateful they are for businesses to supply these products - typically having no more knowledge/experience of the product other than the vendors description and a picture. I don't know of any business advertising products they are attempting to sell as a "piece of crap", although from experience I have found some businesses are obviously contravening the trades description act.

I get the impression there are plenty of people who like to try associating themselves with what they perceive to be successful brands/businesses/individuals - but I really don't know why.

Click to expand...

My comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I just felt there was a bit of bitterness creeping in. That's all.
Could just be a bit of Phil flu hangover. Meant no disrespect mate
Dkt

How did the push rods get out in one piece?...sorry to be getting back on track....no pun intended!
The destruction is interesting, i read custom made rods..more info please..and deffo more pictures

Click to expand...

The lightweight lifters on the left side were blown into pieces allowing the pushrods to escape. I think there is a square bit on the ground that is a fragment of lifter.
The rods were machined from chunk of billet which works fine but it seems these rods don't have the longest life (around 9-10 weekends), sometimes you have to learn the hard way.
I held the 7s cam yesterday, it had a distinct, smiley face shape to it...

The lightweight lifters on the left side were blown into pieces allowing the pushrods to escape.

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My logic = lifer failed, push rod let valve drop which piston hit and the rest is history like Burt's sacrifices to speed.
Cam is only end supported like our jump roping cranks so maybe it bowed enough to loose the push rod? Do you have rev limiter or just run it to what ya must to get ahead? I'd sure look into cryo tempering - cases to lifters next go around.

You can end up with a small fortune racing. Just start out with a large fortune.

Kudos to Fullauto. Anybody that has ever raced probably got some freebies sometime. I can't imagine anyone bitching because someone else got something for free. If anyone wants a Fullauto head and don't want to pay for it, just email me: jcdoesn'tgiveafuck.com and I'll send you as many as you want.

All of motorsports and cycle hobby horses would have to be spent on charity to be biblical prim & proper so everyone one of us not spending ourselves down to poverty level is a sinner going to hell for pure selfish luxury. Maybe we can get legislators to pitch in most their assets to make world a better place too. To race like our privateer heroes do does take a good level of success in real world and beyond my means during this lazy era of my life and times. But at some point the decade of recovering Ms Peel's over rev event will end so excess can be wasted on flat track and other crazy stuff though not to collect points as a racer just demoing what ya missing out on under powered isolastic clunkers that don't have to slow up for much.

SteveA said:

Al-otment said:

SteveA said:

You mean you are not one of the Norton parts suppliers out there cashing in on the popularity of classic motorcycles?

Click to expand...

Don't be naive - unless you can supply me with details of the registered charity that any one of these retail outlets are generating money for then I think you'll find the number one priority they are in the classic bike market is to improve their own bank balance. Sponsoring an apparently well known (at least on these pages) racer by donating a head (possible cost to the supplier I'm guessing at £500) is good value for money in advertising alone.

Tell me, what's the bill for your latest engine rebuild so far?

Click to expand...

Simon, you comments are not only made on your one note trumpet, they are disingenuous in deliberately quoting only part of my post. I am not as naive as you seem to think. Or as naive as you seem to be about the running of a commercial business and profit margins (I have just filed my yearly accounts this week!)....

Click to expand...

Hey Steve, look, I'm being disingenuous again! - not. Read a dictionary definition. I've got a one note trumpet because I keep hearing a one note tune of how every Norton/classic bike owner should be ever so grateful for a shop supplying spares at a healthy profit. Did you remember to say thank you to the relevant suppliers for all the parts that gave you grief?

SteveA said:

I am pissed mainly because am trying to build a race engine without the appropriate time to do it....these things do happen, but I am having more issues than I expected...due to components....not only these. Don't think I am pissed off with individuals, thats not where we are.

Click to expand...

Disaster. Depressing.

Dkt26 said:

Al-otment said:

Dkt26 said:

Doug
Hats off too you sir. You must have titanium nuts to get back on after such an escape.
Fullauto, hats off to you too sir. You're a gentleman. Helping someone out because you can. Again, well done.
This is a good thing folks. Don't kill it. It was kind of Doug to share and kind of ken to help. It should be acknowledged not analysed and demeaned.

Well done fellas

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to demean anything or anybody - just stating the facts. If businesses like FullAuto were enthusiasts truly in business for the benefit of Nortons and the owners and to keep the bikes on the road then they'd be selling products at cost - but I'm not that naive. I'm happy to pay good money for quality products and accept the vendors are making a profit. Jerry Doe is happy for businesses to advertise their products via this site and then plenty of people comment how grateful they are for businesses to supply these products - typically having no more knowledge/experience of the product other than the vendors description and a picture. I don't know of any business advertising products they are attempting to sell as a "piece of crap", although from experience I have found some businesses are obviously contravening the trades description act.

I get the impression there are plenty of people who like to try associating themselves with what they perceive to be successful brands/businesses/individuals - but I really don't know why.

Click to expand...

My comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I just felt there was a bit of bitterness creeping in. That's all.
Could just be a bit of Phil flu hangover. Meant no disrespect mate
Dkt

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, though no offence taken. I try to treat everyone equal - couldn't give a monkeys whether they're a millionaire business man or minimum wage factory worker. All I ask from any supplier is goods of merchantable quality and/or fit for purpose. Fair enough to recommend a business from which you've received good service and vice versa, just don't expect me to fall over myself praising individual businesses purely for doing what they're legally bound to do.

Why do these post turn into a big deal? Back in 1970 my mates commando did the hand granade ..it was a none event...norton for some reason {back then] supplied a replacement :lol: He considered himself dead lucky,as he was reving the nuts off it at the explosion.

Doug, I know that feeling from back in the day when I competed, exploded my Yoshi P&M Suzuki in the 80's similar mess, cost me a small fortune to rebuild it. I was considering a fullauto head for my Commando, now I'll def get one. Full marks to Fullauto and I can't believe people are whinging.
Good luck to all the racers on this forum competing with Commandos , you've got bigger hearts than me!
Many people have asked me what racing is like, I always tell them, take all your money out the bank in cash, borrow the same again, pile it up in your back yard and set fire to it, for the full effect climb onto the roof and jump into the fire. That's racing! Of course I never tell them the adrenalin rush that comes with the real thing, luckily I'm cured of that addiction........I think

Doug

Sorry this had to happen. PM me and I'll try to help you out. Stay healthy.

Jim Schmidt