In the real world

grandpaul said:
Carbonfibre said:
Old classic bikes like Norton and Triumph are just fine for relatively sedate riding, but sports bikes they are not and sustained high rpm running at or near maximum speed will result in major engine damage. The far superior reliability of the early 70s Jap machines was a major selling point, and like it or not this was something that helped to seal the fate of the Brit manufacturers.
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CF seems to think that if he keeps posting rubbish like this, someone might eventually believe him.

Obviously never been to any Classic Bike type racing, where old iron from past eras still goes seriously racing, elbow to elbow, and comes back for more...
 
Carbons allready made it clear that any Norton he ever worked on Blew Up . Not sure on what he landed , though petrol fumes in confined spaces can have a debilitateing effect . Was wondering when he'd start on TRIUMPHS . De ja veu .

Obviously , according to his logic , the Japs are produceing 100 year old designs ( ohv dohc 4 valve )therefore obsolescent.

Can recall as a 9 or 10 year old studying a Kawa 500 , the Tank was painted like the tuppany tin ' candle ' steam boats ,
the front was spindly and there were external seams on the big silencers ( the wernt either after a few miles ) the swing
arm looked spindly . Most of the Jappers were glittery but didnt really look like a PIECE of MACHINEARY , looked like TOY
ones .
Were in fact GLASS tail lights of the 60s Lucas type , initially . Hand Grips were RUBBER .

PLASTIC , on a MOTORCYCLE . Whats the World Comming to . Theyll be getting machines to make them , next . :wink:
 
Bryan Slark Barber's curator says they can source or make anything on any bike up to the end of 70's the all the injection molded plastic came in vogue so now they have to buy examples to preserve as no way to source the plastic who molds are no longer used or in existence. In the real world moderns buzz annoy me and fatigue me as vast amount of time riding their superior everything don't matter a whitworth. In real dangerous games here I began teasing em about their angry looking insects looking like flashy bait lures to me to snap up.

Nothing can go wrong or make a mistake or end of the game either left behind or left injured. Learned the hard way about only down side of IS tank, when only 4 gallon left after 60 miles of full tank play there's enough room and mass to slap forks out of the air into opposite direction than launched. So to turn sharper more predicablitly ole Peel needs some fuel baffling. Those new fangled balloon tire bikes surely must be able to change directions faster than gas can cross tank, just ain't been able to get one to do it nor seen one do it that wasn't crashing.
 
Rohan said:
grandpaul said:
Carbonfibre said:
Old classic bikes like Norton and Triumph are just fine for relatively sedate riding, but sports bikes they are not and sustained high rpm running at or near maximum speed will result in major engine damage. The far superior reliability of the early 70s Jap machines was a major selling point, and like it or not this was something that helped to seal the fate of the Brit manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

CF seems to think that if he keeps posting rubbish like this, someone might eventually believe him.

Obviously never been to any Classic Bike type racing, where old iron from past eras still goes seriously racing, elbow to elbow, and comes back for more...
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I worked on both Jap and Brit bikes back in the day, and anyone who gives a Brit the same sort of treatment a Jap machine will take in its stride, is going to end up with a big repair bill, notwithstanding the views of "experts" posting here who suggest otherwise! The fact that an awful lot of Brit bikes fell apart in the hands of US riders, was perhaps one of the reasons the Japs did so well in the US market back in the early seventies, as they were able to provide bikes which were faster, more reliable and cost less than the Brits.
 
Matt Spencer said:
Carbons allready made it clear that any Norton he ever worked on Blew Up . Not sure on what he landed , though petrol fumes in confined spaces can have a debilitateing effect . Was wondering when he'd start on TRIUMPHS . De ja veu .

Obviously , according to his logic , the Japs are produceing 100 year old designs ( ohv dohc 4 valve )therefore obsolescent.

Can recall as a 9 or 10 year old studying a Kawa 500 , the Tank was painted like the tuppany tin ' candle ' steam boats ,
the front was spindly and there were external seams on the big silencers ( the wernt either after a few miles ) the swing
arm looked spindly . Most of the Jappers were glittery but didnt really look like a PIECE of MACHINEARY , looked like TOY
ones .
Were in fact GLASS tail lights of the 60s Lucas type , initially . Hand Grips were RUBBER .

PLASTIC , on a MOTORCYCLE . Whats the World Comming to . Theyll be getting machines to make them , next . :wink:
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In general UK made Triumphs twins were far more rugged and easier to work on than the Norton, as they had made some sort of effort to update the basic design from 1937. In the main market for Brit bikes the Triumph outsold Norton by a considerable amount, just as later on the H1/H2 outsold the Brits.
 
grandpaul said:
Carbonfibre said:
Old classic bikes like Norton and Triumph are just fine for relatively sedate riding, but sports bikes they are not and sustained high rpm running at or near maximum speed will result in major engine damage. The far superior reliability of the early 70s Jap machines was a major selling point, and like it or not this was something that helped to seal the fate of the Brit manufacturers.
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The most absurd statement I've heard in some time.

I have a near bone stock 1969 (actually built from parts from '66 to '69) Triumph 650 Bonneville that I built for Production class vintage racing, with Sparx electronic ignition, and +.020 Emgo pistons, EVERYTHING ELSE STOCK. Steel clutch plates rubbed up on my shop floor, cheap Emgo friction plates. Stock (properly jetted) Amal 930 concentrics with OEM pancake filters. Entirely stock valve train, transmission, Lucas charging system and OEM oil pump. Bone stock rolling chassis (except clubman handlebars) built from mismatched parts (all Triumph big twin 66-69). Plain Dunlop 501 GTs, no sticky race rubber.

Even though it ran 12 laps of the Texas World Speedway with no oil getting to the top end (plugged feed line) at racing school, it suffered no ill effects. I then raced:

2007
Practice + 2 races at Sandia Classic in Albuquerque
Practice + 2 races at Barber's

2008
Practice + 1 race at Roebling Road Raceway in Bloomington, GA
Practice + 2 races at Daytona International Speedway
Practice + 2 races at Road america in Elkhart Lake, WI
Practice + 2 races at Grattan, MI
Cold Start race and Dirt Drags at New Ulm, TX
Set AHRMA class record on the 3-mile course at the Bonneville Salt Flats (BUB meet)
Practice + 2 races at Miller Motorsports park
Practice + 2 races at the Sandia Classic in Albuquerque
Practice + 2 races at Barber's
Finished 5th in points, in a field of 20 riders.

2009
Set AHRMA class record for standing Start Mile at the Texas Mile in Goliad
Cold Start race and Dirt Drags at New Ulm, TX

2010
Practice + 2 races at Willow Springs
Ran the Texas Mile spring meet
Practice + 1 race at Barber's

In all that time, the only service the bike received was an oil change at the end of each season, with fresh spark plugs every half-dozen or so races.

I did check the valve adjustment every once in a while, but have only adjusted them 2 or 3 times.

Clutch has never been adjusted, still on the same cheap Emgo plates.

Carbs have been cleaned once, after the historic rain and flooding that we drove through in the Michigan area in 2008, just a bit of water in the float bowls, nothing more.

The bike blew a fuse just into the first lap of second practice at Barber's in 2007, still no clue why, but it was fine in the race. I shook loose a coil connection in morning practice the next day, but got it figured out in time for the race.

I had a wierd failure in the second race at Willow Springs in 2010, the bottom of the tank rubbed through one of the coil wires, causing it to short and die. A similar failure happened at barber's, right at pit out, causing me to miss the first race ever.

Other than the wierd but very typical electrical failures, this bike has had ZERO MECHANICAL failures. It will wheelie on throttle alone, even crouched forward with the clubman bars. The clutch has NEVER slipped. The bike has gotten the holeshot on the field (check track photographers websites and available videos to verify) since the second race at Daytona in '08 (my 7th race as a rookie). I may not be the best rider out there, but the BIKE is among the best (if not THE best) in it's class as far as reliability.

I trust that if I were to install lights and a plate on the bike, I could ride it anywhere I want, at sustained highway speeds, with no worries of failure.

If I had the funds, I trust that i could race another season or two with no worries of mechanical failure.

Based on this, your most recent, statement, I believe ANY credibility you have ever managed to add to your posts SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF OTHER PEOPLE'S WRITING, WORK, OR EXPERIENCE, is now COMPLETELY LOST.

I am not among those that believe my Bonneville or Commando can outrun a Z6 on the track or run 175 MPH on the salt, but I am among the THOUSANDS who have FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE WITH MACHINES I HAVE BUILT, who can categorically state that "...sustained high rpm running at or near maximum speed will result in major engine damage" is an absolute absurdity.

I believe your ENTIRE HISTORY of second-hand information (on this forum), none of which you can personally quantify, is thus essentially null.
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With that high level of machine preparation, I wonder how many of the races you actually won?
 
I guess you have never been involved with serious competition Matt? Not sure any racer with any hope of actually winning a race is likely not to have touched their classic race bike motor for 3 years or more?

Like it or not BS posted here about the magical qualities of old Brit bikes is meaningless in the real world, and anyone racing a classic machine is going to need to do a fair amount of work to keep it running 100%.
 
Carbonfibre said:
...notwithstanding the views of "experts" posting here...Like it or not BS posted here about the magical qualities of old Brit bikes is meaningless in the real world, and anyone racing a classic machine is going to need to do a fair amount of work to keep it running 100%.
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OOPS!

I'd really like for you to specify which "expert" you are referring to, and who proclaimed that person an "expert".

It isn't BS if it happened.

"The Real World" is a matter of record, and my record is in the AHRMA archives for anyone to see.

I never said I won, and clearly stated I'm not as good a rider as my humble machine can handle. What I said was that I raced the bike under far more stressful conditions than a typical road bike sees, with hard launches, red line in all gears all the time, clutchless shifting, power downshifts, and sustained full throttle on the high banks of Daytrona and on the salt flats.

I can state with 100% confidence that I could hand my Bonneville off to any of several people I've raced with who are much better riders than me, and they'd be able to duplicate or better thier lap times on any given track on my bike RIGHT NOW, with zero preparation other than a fresh set of spark plugs and an oil change. I can further state with the same level of confidence that it wouldn't explode. The reason is that it is simply a properly prepared engine, according to the factory shop manual; therefore, it is not over-stressed, even at it's maximum capability.

The point of your previous idiocy was that a classic Triumph would blow up under pressure; my reply is that your assertion is absurd.

How you dance around plain facts is an amazing sight to read. You sound so authoritative, yet in clear language, you condemn every statement you make even further.
 
Carbonfibre said:
I guess you have never been involved with serious competition Matt? Not sure any racer with any hope of actually winning a race is likely not to have touched their classic race bike motor for 3 years or more? Like it or not BS posted here about the magical qualities of old Brit bikes is meaningless in the real world, and anyone racing a classic machine is going to need to do a fair amount of work to keep it running 100%.
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I built my bike not only to the SPIRIT of the AHRMA rulebook, for the Novice Historic Production Heavyweight class, but also to the LETTER of the rulebook. It is, in every way, a completely STOCK original specification Triumph Bonneville. The only exception is the (allowed) electronic ignition. As such, it requires no more maintenance than as stated in the workshop manual, although I understand it will grow tired at a more rapid pace (on a relative mile-for-mile basis). Again, the FACT is, that my bike has not required anything beyond the basic servicing. I must admit that I forgot replacing the chain after the first race at Daytona; I had built the bike with a used chain that overheated and started binding. A local shop sold me a new chain, that is still on the bike doing well.

"Serious" competition is any competition where two or more bikes line up on a bone fide race track for a green flag, and race to a checkered flag. You, it would seem, have never been so involved. I indeed have. IF YOU HAD BEEN, you would know that the very real risk of injury and even death exists as much on a vintage 125cc bike at half speed as it does on a modern superbike at full speed.

Any reply that you can not quantify by verifiable personal experience is equal to that of a 13 year old girl with pimples and braces, googling the internet for a come-back.
 
Serious competition is where those competing take things seriously. If you are simply taking part for fun, and are not looking to gain any sort of edge over the other riders, there is no need for a very carefully built motor, and alterations to improve handling and braking.
 
Don't feed the troll.
His only purpose being here seems to be to stop folks enjoying their bikes.
Which he clearly doesn't ?
 
"Any reply that you can not quantify by verifiable personal experience is equal to that of a 13 year old girl with pimples and braces, googling the internet for a come-back"
 
Rohan said:
Don't feed the troll.
His only purpose being here seems to be to stop folks enjoying their bikes.
Which he clearly doesn't ?
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How posting ridiculous BS about how much better Brit bikes are than the Jap machines which resulted in the demise of the Brit MC industry, is reflective of enjoying a bike I cant quite understand?
 
This list is for folks who enjoy their motorcycles.
You obviously don't. Go someplace else and troll.
 
Perhaps it should also be pointed out that at least 99% * of the worlds manufacturers of motorcycles are now extinct. But that doesn't stop owners of such survivors from enjoying them, in whatever form and however they choose to.
Maybe some folks here could benefit from adopting this approach to life...

* total guess. Probably an understimate.
 
[/quote] In general UK made Triumphs twins were far more rugged and easier to work on than the Norton, as they had made some sort of effort to update the basic design from 1937. [/quote]

That one line tells me everthing - You know nothing about Norton Commandos and I suggest you bugger off back to the shrine of Great God of Nippon Manufacture and stick your head back up yer bum.
 
grandpaul said:
"Any reply that you can not quantify by verifiable personal experience is equal to that of a 13 year old girl with pimples and braces, googling the internet for a come-back"
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Well ' speaking off 14 year old girls , doubt the pimples . Farmer Browns Cousin / niece down country was absolved
of K.O.ing a hondagirl heckler r & harrasser who'd given her no peace over the brit / jap issue some years ago .

The Principal had thought the reaction justified to a two week verbal assult by a immature blabbering hysterical dimwit ,
who had been politely asked to desist for a week , and told to clear off three times that morning .
 
Carbonfibre said:
I have nothing to say that anyone in their right mind would listen to.
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please crawl back under your rock. You are an ignorant and objectionable arse with no concept of what this forum is about.

It would not trouble me in the least if you went away and did not return, ever.
 
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